Things I wish I knew about boats.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Elie

I agree completly on this one. After trying unsucessfully to adjust for a couple of years the rigid coupling I resorted to install a CV joint system with a strong stainless steel bulkhead to absorbe the compression from the propeller. What a big difference!. It was a significant work, but since I simply forget all about this ridicule problem, and the ridicule engine compartment construction made for ourangoutangs arms and radiographics vision... These sailboat builders don't seems to care much of the future maintenance of their products. A CVJ eliminate all vibration, some noise, transmission bearings problems, and let the engine danse the diesel rumba as much as it likes. A joy!

I'm not sure all the blame for lack of space falls in the builder. Everyone wants the best hull design and then the builder has to fit the proverbial ten #s of sh%t in a 5 # bag. They are also constrained by the almighty dollar or euro.

[ValiantV]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

DO NOT use coated wire for lifelines regardless of how tempting it seems, for exactly this reason. You can't spot rust or broken strands until the wire is so damaged as to have but a fraction of it's original strength. And it's weaker than uncoated wire is to begin with, as the metal part has to be thinner for the stuff to fit through the holes in the stanchions when it's installed.

.

My coated lifelines are weathered and sad looking so they're on the short list for replacement.

That said, pretty much every boat I see has coated lifelines. Haven't seen a bare one yet.

I would imagine that uncoated ones are cheaper, easier to fabricate as well as being stronger because all of the diameter is wire instead of vinyl.

Has everyone abandoned their coated lifelines and gone with bare ones? Other pros & cons?

BTW - my .02 for why lifelines vs railings us that it's easy to unclip lifelines for boarding and loading unloading stuff. A solid rail presents more problems here.

[ValiantV]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I'm not sure all the blame for lack of space falls in the builder. Everyone wants the best hull design and then the builder has to fit the proverbial ten #s of sh%t in a 5 # bag. They are also constrained by the almighty dollar or euro.

After working on cars with transverse mounted engines crammed sideways under the hood so that changing sparkplugs requires pulling the engine partway out, I'll not complain about "cramped" areas on boats!

[a64pilot]

Actually I am going through this right now as mine are being replaced as they are 30 yrs old and the vinyl has cracked in places and rust showing through, most cables are apparently 304 SS
Uncoated are more expensive as the wire needs to be the same diameter as the coated one, and all the fittings have to be sized to the wire of course, so they are all considerably bigger. I have been advised pretty heavily to not go with uncoated wire, for one reason it hurts quite a bit more if you fall against it and or slide along it in a fall.
My original 304 coated SS wire lasted 30 yrs, assuming the replacement 316 coated will last at least as long, and if it does it will likely outlast my time sailing, I don't think I'll be capable of it in another 30 yrs even if the boat lasts that long.

I believe some go with Dynema, not sure of the downsides there, maybe not legal for racing? Just s guess though

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by ValiantV

After working on cars with transverse mounted engines crammed sideways under the hood so that changing sparkplugs requires pulling the engine partway out, I'll not complain about "cramped" areas on boats!

A significant amount of the cowling, windshield wiper and all has to come out on my Prius, Interval is 100,000 miles, I changed mine at 125,000 and honestly they looked awful good for the mileage, amazing how long plugs can last now

[ValiantV]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A significant amount of the cowling, windshield wiper and all has to come out on my Prius, Interval is 100,000 miles, I changed mine at 125,000 and honestly they looked awful good for the mileage, amazing how long plugs can last now

True, in this day and age of unleaded fuel, platinum electrodes, and electronic ignition, changing (or cleaning, filing, and regapping) spark plugs is a thing of the past.

Bad example in this case.

I have a Pontiac that requires removing a body cross member and the windshield washer reservoir just to get to the battery. Trying to replace a spark plugs lead (chewed by rodents) requires double-jointed arms as thin as Twiggy's and the ability to work blind.

If the worst thing I'll have to deal with on the boat is sucking the oil out to change it and horizontally mounted oil filters, I'll count my blessings and give the engineers a break!

[BobHorn]

Replacing the top life line with stainless tubing on two different sailboats was one of the best improvements we ever made. Much more confident feeling when having to go forward in bad weather, something solid to hang onto instead of the flexing life lines.

[hsi88]

the lifesaving device is your teakwood grabrail on coachhouse roof.

I sure wish the rail along the cabin top was about 1 to 2 feet higher. Would be more useful than a rail closer to my feet than my hands. The shrouds give me something solid to hold onto moving forward, but once at the bow, there is nothing. Messing with a sail on a pitching bow is NOT a good time. Wish I had a railing somewhere on the mid-bow too!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by hsi88

I sure wish the rail along the cabin top was about 1 to 2 feet higher. Would be more useful than a rail closer to my feet than my hands. The shrouds give me something solid to hold onto moving forward, but once at the bow, there is nothing. Messing with a sail on a pitching bow is NOT a good time. Wish I had a railing somewhere on the mid-bow too!

It sounds like it's you boat. Outfit it as you desire.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by newhaul

True but thin wall tubing will flex many times more than schedule 80 steel pipe will. Also the pipe railing on them big cruise ships seem to do just fine.

All very true. However those pipes didn't fail because of flexing, they failed because the run was straight and repeated tension/compression did the rest. Also true that curvature of the rail will certainly allow a rigid handrail high above deck level on a yacht to flex, but in doing so it will continually twist the stanchions outboard then inboard, outboard and inboard, every wave - a bit like having people constantly grabbing hold of your stanchions to haul themselves aboard over the rail - never allowed on most yachts as it does nasty things to the stanchion base/deck join.

So, not always a simple add-on - requires some attention to detail if it's going to work.

Cruise ships manage because the rail is not much further from the axis of bending than the deck is. On vessels with less height above the waterline, bulwarks usually form part of the strength of the ship, like the toerail on a yacht does. Continuous rails will often have a bend, say around some lifebuoys or liferaft mounts, that allows flexing.

Sorry if we didn't make this clear.

[Stenn]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Fixed pushpits, pulpits, & railings cost a good bit more than do lifelines, & in many regards are more fragile. Consider what happens to lifelines when the boat presses up against something hard. Usually there's enough give in them that no damage occurs, or at worst a stanchion or two gets bent. And stanchions are cheap & easy to swap out. But if you nudge anything that's either solid, or heavy with railings, it'll; dimple them, bend them, fracture them, rip them out of the deck, & or rip out piece of the deck along with fully destroying them.

And of course dimpling or bending the tubing means that you have to replace that whole section of the railing, as well as probably redoing some welds elsewhere. Plus, those kinds of loads on railings can destroy the bedding compound where they meet the deck. Or even damage the hull to deck joint, if the railings are stout enough.

Then there's the extra weight up high which railings add. And it's no small thing, especially on boats your size. As it'll make the boat roll more, in addition to raising her CG enough so that she's more knockdown/rollover prone.
Plus, it's quite common not to notice problems with railings until they're about to fail, or the welds/joints have already failed. Where with wire, you notice the broken or rusting strands pretty much right away.

DO NOT use coated wire for lifelines regardless of how tempting it seems, for exactly this reason. You can't spot rust or broken strands until the wire is so damaged as to have but a fraction of it's original strength. And it's weaker than uncoated wire is to begin with, as the metal part has to be thinner for the stuff to fit through the holes in the stanchions when it's installed.

One other thing is that on sailboats it's common to have lines like jib sheets, & spin sheets & guys winding up pressing up or down on the lifelines with a good bit of force, before someone gets around to releading said line in order to take the load off of the lifelines. And since metal tubing, as well as it's welds doesn't take repeated cyclical loadings as well as something flexible like wire does, it's much more prone to damage from this kind of thing. Ditto just the loads imposed on it by someone pulling on it hard when climbing onboard.

Plus, when you put a load on the lifelines, such as when grabbing them to step on or off of the boat, the load gets spread out to all of the stanchions, as well as both pullpits. Which reduces the point loading on things. Which is the reverse of what happens when you grab a railing. With them, most of the load goes into the welds on either end of that section of the tubing. And into the 2 vertical sections of tubing which connect it to the deck. Ergo it's service life will be a lot shorter unless it's made using super beefy tubing (pipe actually). Which adds to cost, & especially to weight up high (the boat's CG).

And picture falling onto/into lifelines vs. railings. Which one do you think has less stretch & is more prone to fail catestrophically. Especially after being subjected to millions of flex cycles as the boat changes shape with each wave that it passes through. That flexing is tough on stainless welds, at every & all joints.

BTW, ever price custom stainless work? Go & check, & you'll better understand more of the why behind railings being uncommon. Even were it mechanically/structurally practical to add them to recreational sailboats, the addition to the selling price of th boats initially would be huge.

Wow, THANKS UnCiv, great write-up !