Anchors. A little schooling, please.

[TommmD]

Don't understand the Deltas. Yes I have a big Mantus primary, but when the wind shifted in a microburst, it was the little Delta lunch anchor set on a vee that held us while others were dragging moorings on Block.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by TommmD

Don't understand the Deltas. Yes I have a big Mantus primary, but when the wind shifted in a microburst, it was the little Delta lunch anchor set on a vee that held us while others were dragging moorings on Block.

Maybe your Delta got snagged on an old abandoned Danforth?
ok, just kidding
but I do still love my Danforths

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by TommmD

... Yes I have a big Mantus primary, but when the wind shifted in a microburst, it was the little Delta lunch anchor set on a vee that held us while others were dragging moorings on Block.

Okay that got my attention. I read on the Rocna website that hanging on two anchors is no longer recommended (something about all the load taken by only one of them, and of course the 3rd Gen's ability to reset) so he recommends chaining two anchors in tandem if you ever need more holding power. I take the opposite view; I'd rather set my second anchor into the forecast wind direction and wait for it to take the strain. My thinking is that an anchor set at the correct angle is more useful than one that must veer with the wind shift, which would tend to agree with Tommm above (I think). Any other experiences like this?

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

When I hear stuff like "the new gen anchors hold as well at 5:1 scope as the old ones at 7:1 (the traditional minimum)", I cringe, because why wouldn't you just pay out more rode with a new anchor? Sleep better!

For some of us anchoring at 7:1 is not really a practical option. Many anchorages in the Pacific are 20 to 25 metres depth. Few boats carry more than 100m of chain. Furthermore the bottom profile is often steep-to. We're currently anchored in 20 metres about 80m from the shore and there's 35 metres of water under the boat. Bottom is sand with patches of rock and coral. In these situations the ability of the new-generation anchors to set fast and hold at relatively short scope is really important.

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Okay that got my attention. I read on the Rocna website that hanging on two anchors is no longer recommended (something about all the load taken by only one of them, and of course the 3rd Gen's ability to reset) so he recommends chaining two anchors in tandem if you ever need more holding power. I take the opposite view; I'd rather set my second anchor into the forecast wind direction and wait for it to take the strain. My thinking is that an anchor set at the correct angle is more useful than one that must veer with the wind shift, which would tend to agree with Tommm above (I think). Any other experiences like this?

I've been amazed by the ability of the rocna to shift with a changing (and strong) wind without breaking out and needing to re-set. It just swivels around to keep itself in-line with the load while remaining buried, though it might sometimes develop a bit of a 'list'. My experiences with two anchors set on separate rodes have often ended badly, especially when it comes to retrieval. I've never needed to yet, but if I ever want more holding power I'd go tandem on one rode as rocna recommend.

[TommmD]

I've Daisy chained anchors just once, for Gloria. A real pain to set both & not to be done in a crowded anchorage. IMHO, only for extreme cases.
Not to mention, a chore to retrieve.

(If my Delta snagged a Danforth, it was probably the best use of that set of flukes it ever got!!) ..just kidding.

My extreme anchor is a Fortress, but it's too damn big to carry normally!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe

I've been amazed by the ability of the rocna to shift with a changing (and strong) wind without breaking out and needing to re-set. It just swivels around to keep itself in-line with the load while remaining buried, though it might sometimes develop a bit of a 'list'. My experiences with two anchors set on separate rodes have often ended badly, especially when it comes to retrieval. I've never needed to yet, but if I ever want more holding power I'd go tandem on one rode as rocna recommend.

Agreed. I used to use the dual anchors at an angle technique when my ‘old-gen’ anchors. I’ve never needed to do so since moving to the rocna. I can see a few possible scenarios where it might be useful, but in general I don’t think it increases holding power, and more easily leads to bad outcomes with rodes gets all twisted.

The ‘new-gen’ anchors do swivel around well in changing wind or tides. They’re not immune to being ripped out, but if they’ve been dug in, they tend to stay dug in.

BTW, deep water anchoring does sometimes require less than optimum rode length. I try and avoid anchoring in more than 50 feet, but sometimes you have no choice. I have held on 3:1 or less on my rocna, but I’m always happier with more down.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Integra

I'm choosing a second anchor for our new Lagoon 450, and after some research have decided on a Fortress FX37 on the basis that it's strong enough to use as a storm anchor but light enough (10.6KG, 23lbs) to be used as a a kedge/stern anchor, especially if we remove the chain. Given that the boat weighs 18 tons, do you think this would be a good choice? After all, Mike says he hasn't used half his anchors!

An FX-37 is our back-up anchor for those same reasons, and our boat is 28 tons.

We used it as primary for a year or so until I could get an electric windlass installed and mount another anchor that's also compatible with our normal holding grounds. The FX-37 worked great.

-Chris

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

An FX-37 is our back-up anchor for those same reasons, and our boat is 28 tons.

That’s our storm anchor as well (we’re only 15 tons) and could be used as our backup if we ever lost of rocna. I got this one b/c it seemed to be the largest Fortress I could still man-handle with reasonable effort.

[SeaSon]

Fortress, IMHO, are too light unless sand is the only bottom you see and weekend trips are your travels.

I've had them pull out of silt bottoms after 3 days with no wind shift, good scope and chain rode, because the wind picked up to 25knts. I've seen thier flukes bent up on supposedly properly sized anchors in a 50 knt breeze.

My old cqr was OK with lots of scope, and I've had outstanding success with Delta and chain combinations.

Couldn't ever come to grips with the outrageously over-priced new generation anchors - it's just steel and a few welds, c'mon.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by SeaSon

Fortress, IMHO, are too light unless sand is the only bottom you see and weekend trips are your travels.

I've had them pull out of silt bottoms after 3 days with no wind shift, good scope and chain rode, because the wind picked up to 25knts. I've seen thier flukes bent up on supposedly properly sized anchors in a 50 knt breeze.

Which Fortress? IOW, how light was light?

We've not had that experience, with either the current FX-37 or the previous FX-23 we used for a while. No matter what the winds, no matter direction changes (and we can't take a reef in our fylbridge/saloon so I think we qualilfy as a high windage vessel).

Bottom here mostly ranges from mud to soft mud to slime... and even in slime, it usually takes us a lot of work to break the anchor out.

Resting scope usually 5:1 or greater, 25' of leading chain, 300' of 8-plait nylon. Mixed rode so we spend less time cleaning mud out of chain links...

-Chris

[SeaSon]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Which Fortress? IOW, how light was light?

We've not had that experience, with either the current FX-37 or the previous FX-23 we used for a while. No matter what the winds, no matter direction changes (and we can't take a reef in our fylbridge/saloon so I think we qualilfy as a high windage vessel).

Bottom here mostly ranges from mud to soft mud to slime... and even in slime, it usually takes us a lot of work to break the anchor out.

Resting scope usually 5:1 or greater, 25' of leading chain, 300' of 8-plait nylon. Mixed rode so we spend less time cleaning mud out of chain links...

-Chris

The very biggest mother Fortress they make, on a 70ft sailboat.

The bent flukes where in sand coral combo in the Virgins.

The factory replacement unit dragged the following year in the sewer pit of Cartagena's Bay by the American Yacht Club - it took over a half dozen attempts to get it set both the first and second time. The French guy on the cat behind us was pissed, but the Columbian Coast Guard became real friendly. It just did not have the weight to get through the silt and on to the harder bottom. All other boats appeared to be using old school or Deltas.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by SeaSon

The very biggest mother Fortress they make, on a 70ft sailboat.

The bent flukes where in sand coral combo in the Virgins.

The factory replacement unit dragged the following year in the sewer pit of Cartagena's Bay by the American Yacht Club - it took over a half dozen attempts to get it set both the first and second time. The French guy on the cat behind us was pissed, but the Columbian Coast Guard became real friendly. It just did not have the weight to get through the silt and on to the harder bottom. All other boats appeared to be using old school or Deltas.

Hmmm.... an FX-125 weighs 69-lbs, about 20 lbs heavier than my current main anchor. And as I understand it, that's the one the Coast Guard uses on their cutters. Hard to imagine weight being the issue... unless you're maybe comparing that to some other 100-lb anchors?

Bent flukes sounds like maybe a different issue, not weight-related? Hung up on something? Or...?

-Chris

[Lepke]

Another issue to consider is how the winch is fastened to the boat. Few yachts have a winch installed to hold the breaking strength of chain. Even dividing the strain among the winch and forward cleats probably doesn't come close. I have seen and repaired decks where the winch and backing plates pulled out.
My current boat, before my time, had the winch pulled out.

[Frankly]

Used CQR, Delta, and now Rocna as primary cruising anchor. CQR and Delta are good anchors (Delta better value) but will on occasions drag a bit. Where you drop that Ronca is where you will pick it back up. Getting it out of the bottom after a good blow can take a little effort and usually brings a chunk of bottom with it.

In prepping for Irma I used my big Fortress and for the first time punched out the mud window and set her up with the steeper fluke angle. I was making sure to keep Cbreeze's bow rail out my boat house and the bayou bottom is pretty mucky. I carried her out for a good 15/1 scope thinking that after I drug it through the mud I would end up with 10/1. I pulled in the slack by hand and at the first resistance the rode went on my jib winch. The 5/8 nylon came taught and that was it. Didn't get another 3' with the winch and a lot of that was nylon stretch. Today after 50 knots on the stern that nylon is still taught and the Cbreeze did not move. I was impressed. OTOH I have a smaller Fortress on my 18' Whaler and it is a great lunch hook in sand (because it is light and won't rust). Drop it in St. Andrews Bay grass and you just as well have left it in the locker.

For a fluke style anchor holding in most conditions Danforth High Tensile is my top choice by a mile.