Anchors. A little schooling, please.

[carstenb]

I'm in the camp that most new generation anchors are equally good. We have a Mantus and on our boat our motto is "In Mantus we trust". It has always set (there is one exception - see below) without issue and has always reset itself even when we have anchored in places with 2-3 knot tidal currents, meaning a change in directions every 6 hours (add wind forces to that) The scope there was about 6:1.

Normally we go with 5:1 but we have ahd up to 8:1 out.

A week was the first time we were unable to get the Mantus to bite. We're in Carolina Beach NC and with 5:1 out the anchor dragged when we backed down on it with 2400 rpm. We tried 3 times with the same result - this is probably because the bottom here has a deep layer of silt that the anchor simply couldn't get through.

Otherwise it has never dragged even though many others around us have dragged.

FYI - our boat weighs 13 tons and the Mantus is 69 lbs and we have 330 feet of 3/8 inch chain. We rig a 15 foot 1 1/4 inch storm bridle every time we anchor, no matter what.

We also sleep very well at night..........................

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lepke

Another issue to consider is how the winch is fastened to the boat. Few yachts have a winch installed to hold the breaking strength of chain. Even dividing the strain among the winch and forward cleats probably doesn't come close. I have seen and repaired decks where the winch and backing plates pulled out.
My current boat, before my time, had the winch pulled out.

That’s a good point. I always rig double-snubbers in a bridle and take them to our very beefy, well-backed, forward cleats. I then have a chain hook attached on the always-slack chain rode taken to another very strong, well-backed, attachment point forward of the windlass. Finally, the windlass lock is engaged.

The windlass never feels any force (so far ). The snubbers attached to the cleats take the load. The hook is there if the snubbers fail (very occasionally this happens … usually when my rolling hitch has unraveled by dragging on the bottom). The windlass lock is the final line of defence. It never feels anything.

Originally Posted by carstenb

...FYI - our boat weighs 13 tons and the Mantus is 69 lbs and we have 330 feet of 3/8 inch chain. We rig a 15 foot 1 1/4 inch storm bridle every time we anchor, no matter what.

That’s a great setup Carstenb. My Rocna is 55#. It’s slightly oversized for our boat as is, but if/when we replace it I’d go another step up. My view is one should get the biggest new-gen anchor your anchoring system (windlass, rollers, rode, your back) can reasonably manage. My windlass could manage the next size up.

For the record, we have never dragged once our Rocna has been set. And we’ve held in 50+ knot storms and in shifting high-current zones (over 4 knots according to my speedo!). I’m sure we will drag, eventually. No anchor is perfect, and no anchoring is ever done perfectly. But these new spade-style anchors (perhaps that’s a better term than ‘new-gen’) are simply better at setting, resetting, and digging most of the time compared to the older style.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

... But these new spade-style anchors (perhaps that’s a better term than ‘new-gen’) are simply better at setting, resetting, and digging most of the time compared to the older style.

Mike, 'Spade-style' may not be the best term: I'm thinking here particularly of the 'plough-style' 3rd-Gen, Sarca Excel - it seems to be right up there with the best (though I'm still waiting to see the latest test results, and it is expensive).

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Mike, 'Spade-style' may not be the best term: I'm thinking here particularly of the 'plough-style' 3rd-Gen, Sarca Excel - it seems to be right up there with the best (though I'm still waiting to see the latest test results, and it is expensive).

I’ll take your word for it ND. I’ve never used an excel. They look a lot like deltas to me, which I place somewhere in between. I just dislike the whole ‘new-gen’ and ‘old-gen’ terms. Love to find a better term that is clear.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I’ll take your word for it ND. I’ve never used an excel. They look a lot like deltas to me, which I place somewhere in between. I just dislike the whole ‘new-gen’ and ‘old-gen’ terms. Love to find a better term that is clear.

The correct terminology is "new-fangled" and "back-in-the-day."

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Don C L

The correct terminology is "new-fangled" and "back-in-the-day."

Nahh, the correct terminology is: "wonderful new innovative anchor" (mine) or " POS crackpot idea" (anyone else's). That's how anchor threads go IME!

Jim

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Nahh, the correct terminology is: "wonderful new innovative anchor" (mine) or " POS crackpot idea" (anyone else's). That's how anchor threads go IME!

Jim

Ahhh... well as you might have guessed, I beg to differ... It is WONDERFUL OLD CLASSIC anchor vs. POS Crackpot idea!

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

... I just dislike the whole ‘new-gen’ and ‘old-gen’ terms. Love to find a better term that is clear.

How about the legal terms, HHP and SHHP?
Correct me if wrong (again) but HHP is required to provide twice the holding power of a traditional ship's anchor and SHHP must double that again. Except I'm told Mantus (arguably one of the best?) does not meet SHHP requirements of strength, and of course Don's darned Danforths, and those Fortresses, have the highest straight-line holding power of all!

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

How about the legal terms, HHP and SHHP?

But it's not just about holding power. It's also about quickly setting in different substrates, not fouling on clamshells or small rocks, and remaining set (or quickly resetting) when the current and wind direction changes. Do the HHP and SHHP classifications address these factors?

Anecdotal story: I used to use a 44 lb Delta in San Francisco Bay. There were times and places where the anchor wouldn't set well, and would drag with very little effort. These were areas that appeared to have soft mud over a harder layer. I changed my anchor to a 66 lb Spade, and it seemed to work much better. It always set, never dragged, and would handle current direction changes with no drama. I also carry an aluminum Fortress as a stern anchor, and that has proved very valuable a couple of times.

On the other hand, the Fortress, and some steel Danforth anchors have gotten wedged open by rocks or shells. If the anchor had needed to reset, or been called upon to hold in a heavy blow I doubt if it would have done the job.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

. . . I always put out at least 5:1 except in very odd situations. But I usually aim for 7:1 or even greater. If I’m not constrained by other boats or proximity to land, why the heck not put out more?!?. . .

My Dad used to always tell me -- chain doesn't do anything sitting in the locker . . . .

There are a few reasons NOT to put out more than you need -- more time to retrieve, more wear and tear on the windlass, etc. Also, if you're in an anchorage with other boats, you don't want to have much more or much less scope out than other boats, so that you swing harmoniously.

But I often just put it all out anyway, if I'm not constrained in some way.

I have 100 meters (320 feet) of 1/2" chain, and don't use a snubber, so more chain on top of better security, means more comfort.

[Kenomac]

You routinely put out 320ft of chain? Why not use a snubber, I thought you were the one who likes to pull back on your anchor at full throttle for five minutes?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You routinely put out 320ft of chain? Why not use a snubber, I thought you were the one who likes to pull back on your anchor at full throttle for five minutes?

Yes, not rarely, I put out the whole chain. I often anchor in fairly deep water, however.

I always BELAY the chain, with a stout piece of stainless chain, shackled to a chainplate. Don't use a snubber to perform this function!

With 1/2" chain, a snubber is not needed except in very rough conditions. Chain catenary gives plenty of damping.

[Kenomac]

Dockhead,

How deep is the water? Which windlass and motor do you use? Wouldn't what you're doing be placing a lot of unnecessary wear and tear on the windlass? Our Lewmar Ocean 3 completely broke down two days ago, necessitating us to haul up 210ft of chain using the winch handle working against the motor and ruined gearbox. Not impossible, but very difficult.

Almost made it to the end of the cruising season, missed by three days. I'll probably begin a thread on this subject next week when I take the thing apart.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Dockhead,

Which windlass and motor do you use? Wouldn't what you're doing be placing a lot of unnecessary wear and tear on the windlass? Our Lewmar Ocean 3 completely broke down two days ago, necessitating us to haul up 210ft of chain using the winch handle working against the motor and ruined gearbox. Not impossible, but very difficult.

Almost made it to the end of the cruising season, missed by three days.

I have the same carpy windlass as you do, and I've already replaced the gearbox and motor once at significant expense

Yes, using way too much chain does put unnecessary wear and tear on the windlass and is a reason (which I already mentioned) NOT to use more chain than you need.

Next boat will have a massively oversized and truly bullet-proof horizontal windlass of some kind -- Lighthouse or Lofrans probably. Something which will rip the anchor out of any bottom without a second thought.

[Kenomac]

Please explain how your windlass failed. What were the symptoms leading up to the failure? Did you replace the motor and gearbox with the same lewmar 3 motor or were you able to fit something stronger.