Anyone switched from Sailboat to Powerboat?

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

No greater sacrilege can occur....there is a reason they are called "stink-pots"....but live and let live, I suppose...

How many cruising sailboats are out there in regular use which have no auxiliary engine? Why is that?

[Hoodsail]

Douglas, because admittedly we contemporaneous sailors are a lazy lot....i use my auxiliary in/out of our town marina then its off for the duration and to charge my batteries for chartplotter, etc. Will admit to motor/sailing when i have to be somewhere due to my schedule mandated by employment, but that'll end soon. Then only prevailing wind will drive my arrival not my 30hp "iron sail". Have to admit to stumbling into a trawler boat show acouple of years ago....took a dinner out bribe to get my wife to leave a 40foot Grand Banks, saying, "...why doesnt our boat look like this?!" I responded, nothing that $450,000 wont cure...

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

Douglas, because admittedly we contemporaneous sailors are a lazy lot....i use my auxiliary in/out of our town marina then its off for the duration and to charge my batteries for chartplotter, etc. Will admit to motor/sailing when i have to be somewhere due to my schedule mandated by employment, but that'll end soon. Then only prevailing wind will drive my arrival not my 30hp "iron sail". .

As a full time cruiser I am continually amazed at how many poorly designed motorboats with masts we see getting around.
Its quite rare to see one actually using its sails.

So little accommodation, such poor ability to motor to windward and yet almost any of them over 45ft of size cost more than ours.

Have to admit to stumbling into a trawler boat show acouple of years ago....took a dinner out bribe to get my wife to leave a 40foot Grand Banks, saying, "...why doesnt our boat look like this?!" I responded, nothing that $450,000 wont cure..

You don't have a new boat now, why would you need to had a new GB?
You could get a 2nd hand one with the same space and comfort level for a fraction of that price.
Similar vintage to yours costs about $45k.

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by storx

........but no luck yet as most of the ones in my price range are very very worn down and beat up and they still want a lot of money for them...

... he said he got the sailboat with plans to sail all over, which that lasted about 1 year before now he spends most of his time at anchor or at a marina 99% of the time. That he still travels down to the Caribbeans yearly, but once you get down there you typically sit around on anchor wanting to explore the land and such, so in the end it was just more expensive for him personally owning a catamaran vs his old 4788 he stated.

He told me unless I plan to sail every day, stick to a trawler with more living space...

I read your comments. As someone already commented it really does come down to what you plan to do with the boat. For a relatively small budget (say <$100k) on a fairly old sailboat you could sail around the world, living anywhere you like, if you have the skills to maintain and repair (and sail) it. For that sum of money it would be impossible to find a trawler to do the same. You would have to spend many multiples of that for a trawler that is ocean capable. On the other hand, if you stick to coastal and protected waters and are not driven to sail, a trawler is likely your best bet. Just remember that for any price and size a well built and equipped sail boat is going to look after you better in bad conditions than a similar build/equipped motor boat.
~All just My Opinion. Alan

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by AlanT

I read your comments. As someone already commented it really does come down to what you plan to do with the boat. For a relatively small budget (say <$100k) on a fairly old sailboat you could sail around the world, living anywhere you like, if you have the skills to maintain and repair (and sail) it. For that sum of money it would be impossible to find a trawler to do the same. You would have to spend many multiples of that for a trawler that is ocean capable.

Simply not true.

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

As a full time cruiser I am continually amazed at how many poorly designed motorboats with masts we see getting around.
Its quite rare to see one actually using its sails.

So little accommodation, such poor ability to motor to windward and yet almost any of them over 45ft of size cost more than ours.




You don't have a new boat now, why would you need to had a new GB?
You could get a 2nd hand one with the same space and comfort level for a fraction of that price.
Similar vintage to yours costs about $45k.

Geez, I get it. Not the first time I read comments from you on this topic with the same reasoning: rarely see sailors using their sails, you guys live in a boat basement, sails are too expensive, better a trawler, etc. Got it. You love your motor boat. Checked!

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by DanCan

Geez, I get it. Not the first time I read comments from you on this topic with the same reasoning: rarely see sailors using their sails, you guys live in a boat basement, sails are too expensive, better a trawler, etc. Got it. You love your motor boat. Checked!

Struck a nerve did I

Fact of the matter is I prefer to sail, always have done, but only on boats that can actually sail (something that can maintain at least a 6 knot average) be it under sail or power.
Reality is to do so with a similar level of comfort and autonomy that we enjoy now would cost several times more to purchase the vessel capable of doing it.

More important than wanting to sail was being on the water with a willing and happy partner.
That meant certain comfort levels were required
Shes been out here full time, never a night off the boat for 4 years
No way that was going to happen on any of our previous sailing vessels, mono or cat and no way it was going to happen on any sailing vessel we could afford, even at 4X the budget.

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Simply not true.

The OP is finding only old worn out sailboats in his price range. I imagine, and I may be wrong, that his budget is $30-$50k. I would not expect to find an ocean capable trawler for say $30k x 3 or $50k X 3 ($90k - $150k). Your experience and locale may of course be different, Its only my opinion.
~Alan

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Struck a nerve did I

Fact of the matter is I prefer to sail, always have done, but only on boats that can actually sail (something that can maintain at least a 6 knot average) be it under sail or power.
Reality is to do so with a similar level of comfort and autonomy that we enjoy now would cost several times more to purchase the vessel capable of doing it.

More important than wanting to sail was being on the water with a willing and happy partner.
That meant certain comfort levels were required
Shes been out here full time, never a night off the boat for 4 years
No way that was going to happen on any of our previous sailing vessels, mono or cat and no way it was going to happen on any sailing vessel we could afford, even at 4X the budget.

Suuuure, i totally get it, you love sailboats...

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by DanCan

Suuuure, i totally get it, you love sailboats...

You don't get it at all.

I love being on the water with a happy and willing partner.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by AlanT

Just remember that for any price and size a well built and equipped sail boat is going to look after you better in bad conditions than a similar build/equipped motor boat.

Alan - while I understand the logic of what you are saying, I don't agree with this statement. I spent about 4-years as a full time, dedicated delivery skipper based out of San Francisco. I got to the point where I stopped delivering sailboats. One of the reasons was I just flat out felt it was easier to get injured on a sailboat. In my opinion, needing to go on-deck to address an issue elevates risk - something has broken free, shifted, or jammed. That happens much, much more on sailboats than powerboats. There are sail changes, lines jam, furlers jam, cruising sailboats often have all sorts of junk strapped forward including dinghys and gerry cans, etc. And the decks themselves are much less secure: stowed gear, lines, blocks, etc. Lifelines are usually low and inadequate. Couple this with swinging booms, lines, and sails, and there are a ton of ways to get hurt. Then add-in fatigue since many sailboats do not have comfortable places to sit long term, and you're outside in the weather way too much. I did the 2004 Baja Ha Ha on a friend's Willard 40 where we averaged 7-kts which meant we beat 95% of the fleet to the next anchorage and watched as the sailors trickled in over 1-1/2 days - many looked like they'd been to hell and back even though they were sailing in decent conditions.

Granted, as a delivery captain along the California Coast (well, Alaska to Cabo mostly), most of my runs were multi-day non-stop runs so perhaps extreme examples, but I just found sailboats to have too much risk for my tastes. For me, not about sail vs power, just about risk vs reward. If I got hurt, I couldn't work. I just felt that was much more likely aboard a sailboat than a powerboat.

I'm not saying this is guidance for anyone else. All I can tell you is that's how I made my living and paid my bills for about 4-years, with about 250 days at sea for each year. As much as I love sailing, in my opinion, it carries more risk than a powerboat of roughly similar value. While I agree with the premise that in a Perfect Storm you're probably better off in a sailboat than a standard trawler or powerboat (I seem to recall a Westsail 32 made it through), those are extremely rare events that can be totally avoided.

Perfect Storm: Yep, rather be in a Westsail 32 than my Willard 36. California to Hawaii and I can pick the season: I'll take my chances with my Willard 36 (full disclosure - a few W36's have made this trip), though I'd rig an auxiliary sail somehow just in case. Easier to rig that than rig a comfortable helm station in a Westsail.

Peter

[mvmojo]

I agree with mvweebles. We sailed the Caribbean for 6 years in a 42' ketch with numerous 3-4 day sales back and forth between Vz and the VI's. And we got caught in our share of squalls and non-forecasted lengthy blows which kicked up 10-12+' seas. Never was scared, but it certainly wasn't comfortable and I certainly felt it was risky to go on deck. Had a genoa halyard break one night and down came the genny. Loads of fun trying to wrestle the sail out of the water and back on deck at o-dark thirty! On our trawler (www.mvmojo.com), if we ever have to leave the deck house, we have high steel railing all the way around - you'd almost have to climb up and jump off to go overboard. We're stabilized with flopper stoppers that reduce roll from 35 degrees down to 5 degrees in almost any conditions (except the perfect storm!). And, we can go directly into the wind if desired thereby shortening the trip versus tacking. The Cummins 6BTA 5.9M diesel has been trouble free. Can it fail, of course. But, with routine maintenance and good fuel filtration diesels are incredibly reliable so the odds are good that it won't. As mvweebles said, in a perfect storm I'd probably rather be in a sail boat, but a trawler offers so many other advantages in terms of comfort, speed, safety, not living life at 15+ degrees for days on end, etc., that I'm a convert. Of course, as they say, nobody ever calls their baby ugly!

[mikereed100]

I think that the advantages or disadvantages of a trawler vs sailboat are very boat-specific. Sure, if you have a larger trawler that is stabilized and maybe sporting a dry stack they can be very safe and comfortable. However, I believe the OP is looking at more humble boats, including a smaller Bayliner that is likely more in step with his price range. This is the same category in which I would place our Roughwater 41. While it is reliable and a good sea boat I feel much safer and more comfortable on our cat. In a beam sea the thing rolls like a pig, sending anything, including crew, that is not fastened down, flying. A little reminiscent of our decades in monohulls, although the rolling is more violent absent a weighted keel.

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Alan - while I understand the logic of what you are saying, I don't agree with this statement. I spent about 4-years as a full time, dedicated delivery skipper based out of San Francisco. I got to the point where I stopped delivering sailboats. One of the reasons was I just flat out felt it was easier to get injured on a sailboat. In my opinion, needing to go on-deck to address an issue elevates risk - something has broken free, shifted, or jammed. That happens much, much more on sailboats than powerboats. There are sail changes, lines jam, furlers jam, cruising sailboats often have all sorts of junk strapped forward including dinghys and gerry cans, etc. And the decks themselves are much less secure: stowed gear, lines, blocks, etc. Lifelines are usually low and inadequate. Couple this with swinging booms, lines, and sails, and there are a ton of ways to get hurt. Then add-in fatigue since many sailboats do not have comfortable places to sit long term, and you're outside in the weather way too much. I did the 2004 Baja Ha Ha on a friend's Willard 40 where we averaged 7-kts which meant we beat 95% of the fleet to the next anchorage and watched as the sailors trickled in over 1-1/2 days - many looked like they'd been to hell and back even though they were sailing in decent conditions.

Granted, as a delivery captain along the California Coast (well, Alaska to Cabo mostly), most of my runs were multi-day non-stop runs so perhaps extreme examples, but I just found sailboats to have too much risk for my tastes. For me, not about sail vs power, just about risk vs reward. If I got hurt, I couldn't work. I just felt that was much more likely aboard a sailboat than a powerboat.

I'm not saying this is guidance for anyone else. All I can tell you is that's how I made my living and paid my bills for about 4-years, with about 250 days at sea for each year. As much as I love sailing, in my opinion, it carries more risk than a powerboat of roughly similar value. While I agree with the premise that in a Perfect Storm you're probably better off in a sailboat than a standard trawler or powerboat (I seem to recall a Westsail 32 made it through), those are extremely rare events that can be totally avoided.

Perfect Storm: Yep, rather be in a Westsail 32 than my Willard 36. California to Hawaii and I can pick the season: I'll take my chances with my Willard 36 (full disclosure - a few W36's have made this trip), though I'd rig an auxiliary sail somehow just in case. Easier to rig that than rig a comfortable helm station in a Westsail.

Peter

Most delivery captains hate sail deliveries for all the reasons that you mention. Its a lot more work, more to go wrong that can be interpreted against the hired capt, stingier customer base, no going to windward etc etc. I wasn't addressing any of that. The original poster is at a price point that precludes IMO a trawler if he wants to go ocean traveling. If that is indeed what he wants, he will need to consider a sailboat. IMO ~ Alan

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by AlanT

Most delivery captains hate sail deliveries for all the reasons that you mention. Its a lot more work, more to go wrong that can be interpreted against the hired capt, stingier customer base, no going to windward etc etc. I wasn't addressing any of that. The original poster is at a price point that precludes IMO a trawler if he wants to go ocean traveling. If that is indeed what he wants, he will need to consider a sailboat. IMO ~ Alan

OP didn't say anything about crossing oceans. As a matter of fact, he mentioned just bopping around the Caribbean. This is totally do-able at a price-point similar to a sailboat, perhaps even less expensively if you consider outfitting costs of sails, rigging, etc. that many sailboats need when sold. But I totally agree - if goal is to cross an ocean and you have a $100k budget, you will find many, many more suitable sailboats than trawlers.

But, if serious coastal cruising is your goal - here's a 40-foot Defever trawler listed for sale for $50k with a ton of fairly recent upgrades. Ad states she just finished a 2-year cruise from California to Florida through the Panama Canal, and she appears to be in nice condition and ready to go again. She was listed to this forum a few months ago. Good boat, good deal at $50k. Ready to go.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...er-210286.html

EDIT - I have no knowledge or connection with the Defever, just caught my attention. Seemed like a good example for this thread.