Easy boat to dock

[Flatswing]

Relax, it’s mainly practice, lots of practice. Start with calm days and keep practicing.Twins make it easier, but single engine and bow thruster can be just as good. With a single, the boat steers primarily by pushing the stern to PT/STBD unlike a wheeled vehicle. With twins the boat will pivot closer to the helm/mid ships. The effect of wind will be the biggest difference from sail since most 30 footers have negligible keels and a lot of windage.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Another thing to keep in mind is that all boats turn at the stern. When you stand at the wheel and turn the boat to Port, the bow appears to turn to port, but what has actually occurred is the stern as actually moved to Stbd and the bow happens to be attached.

Understanding this principal is key to docking a boat. We assume the boat behaves the same as the only other parallel in our experience......bikes and cars. In addition, in reverse, only prop walk controls the direction, not the rudder (maybe in a sailboat because of the size of the rudder), at least not in a power boat. Only outboards and outdrives can be steered in reverse.

If you're attempting to steer the bow while docking, be aware of what is occurring with your stern. These two principals are why most people find docking to be a very steep learning curve.

This is mostly correct. Boats rotate roughly 1/3rd the way back from the bow - just about where the helmsman stands on many powerboats (flybridge, for example). Fin keel sailboats pivot a bit more on the keel, but you get the idea. They turn more like a forklift turns (a forklift's rear wheels turn).

The only tweak I'd make to Shrew's observation is the same I'd make to many posts thus far - they seem to assume that all powerboats have tiny, saucer-sized rudders. Higher-speed boats have smaller rudders because it takes less rudder to turn at speed. Also provides very little correction at slow speeds. Semi-displacement and displacement boats have larger rudders, with a full displacement boat such as my Willard 36 (and my Willard 30 before it) having a full-length keel with a barn-door rudder. Having driven a Dreadnaught 32 and a Westsail 32 (sailboats with similar hull sections to a full displacement powerboat), I can tell you the powerboat-version of the similar hull is infinitely more maneuverable in close quarters because sailboats tend to compromise on the prop and often have undersized engines.

Few people start out getting lessons. They either figure it out on their own (sort of a guy-thing), or something traumatic happens and they decide to get a lesson. For me, many, many years ago, it was getting fed-up with wanting to head out on a Saturday but being scared about the returning winds. So I finally went to a large brokerage and found a captain who taught. He wasn't the greatest, but good enough to get me started. I became deeply involved in the recreational marine industry a few years later and ended up with a 100T license and started teaching others. My background - especially the fear of docking - really helped me teach folks. The fear was still pretty fresh in my mind so I could relate.

At any rate, I probably gave well over 100 docking lessons until I returned to corporate America 15-years ago. Most everyone got the hang of docking pretty quickly. Interestingly, at rank-novice level, women seemed to make better students than men - men have a plan and don't hear a dang think until they're proven wrong (Shrew's tip about steering the stern of the boat being a prime example), so the challenge as a teacher is finding a safe way to let them fail. Women are more cautious - they do not have the ego issue men have, so they worry about injury to someone else, damage to another boat, damage to their boat. Men's #1 worry is embarrassment.

I promise - promise - you can get the hang of docking. Not all boats are easy, but assuming you don't go for an over-sized houseboat with an undersized engine and try to dock it in 30-kts of breeze, you'll be okay. As someone else said, get some fenders.

Good luck -

Peter

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Twin inboards can be steered in reverse (by using the engines), but singles cannot unless going backwards fast enough for the rudder to have some effect.

Singles can be steered in reverse, but it's more difficult and your options are more limited. There are only two moving parts on a boat - rudder and prop (okay, thruster if installed). Most recreational twin-screw drivers never use directed prop-wash because they rely exclusively on having twins offset - the shopping cart effect where you push the right gear into forward and it pushes the bow to the left. Pull the right gear backwards and it rotates the bow to the right (well, technically, pulls the stern to the left).

Single engine + rudder drivers have to use their rudder, in both forward and reverse. Yes, the rudder is useless in reverse until there is sufficient sternway to create flow, but short blasts in forward with the rudder hardover will push the stern around even if the boat is going backwards. Combination of rudder-wash and prop-walk makes it possible to back-down with a single, but the boat is much more vulnerable to wind/current.

BTW - drivers with twins (including cats) would really benefit from using prop walk more than they often do. When approaching a side-tie, most seem to 'split' the gears to spin the boat roughly from the center. Works pretty well, but often the boat ends up a couple feet off the dock. A more reliable approach is to leave the engine closest to the dock in neutral, and put the outboard engine in reverse, using the RPMs to feather the speed. The outboard engine is always propped so prop-walk will drag the stern towards the dock, effectively moving the pivot point well forward. Similarly, if you've developed too much rotation and fear bouncing off your fenders, drop the inboard engine into reverse (i.e. closest to dock) and prop-walk will defeat the rotation.

Peter

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

BTW - drivers with twins (including cats) would really benefit from using prop walk more than they often do. When approaching a side-tie, most seem to 'split' the gears to spin the boat roughly from the center. Works pretty well, but often the boat ends up a couple feet off the dock. A more reliable approach is to leave the engine closest to the dock in neutral, and put the outboard engine in reverse, using the RPMs to feather the speed. The outboard engine is always propped so propwalk will drag the stern towards the dock, effectively moving the pivot point well forward.

I see people struggle with that a lot as well. Unless I actually want to spin in place, I rarely have both engines in gear at the same time. You can do far more with a twin if it's basically treated as 2 singles tied together.

[jakkum]

A twin engine powerboat can be moved sideways, without going aead or astern

If you want to move to starboard, rudders to port port eng ahead, starboard reverse.
Playing a bit with the revs and rudder and you will see you can mover her without turning to stsrboatd
For port......

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I see people struggle with that a lot as well. Unless I actually want to spin in place, I rarely have both engines in gear at the same time. You can do far more with a twin if it's basically treated as 2 singles tied together.

Well said

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by jakkum

A twin engine powerboat can be moved sideways, without going aead or astern

If you want to move to starboard, rudders to port port eng ahead, starboard reverse.
Playing a bit with the revs and rudder and you will see you can mover her without turning to stsrboatd
For port......

That's one of those boat specific items. On a boat with enough rudder authority, not too much prop walk and not too much keel, it'll work. But on some boats, it just doesn't work well, if at all.

With the less common inboard rotating props it works better, as prop walk is helping. With typical outboard rotating props, the prop walk fights you, so depending on amount of prop walk and resistance to sideways motion, you might not be able to generate any significant sideways thrust.

[Ken Z]

Twin engines help a lot, a bow thruster is gold. Its a trail and error that you need to practice. Go to open water and practice backing. You basically have forward reverse and the wheel , depending on current, seas, wind you have to build the combo that works.

[tekdiver]

Originally Posted by yorkville

I am new to powerboating. Previous experince only in sailing dinghy and hobie cat.


I am thinking abt getting a ~30' powerboat for liveaboard. But I found docking to be very challenging on the few occasions I tried. I wonder if anyone has suggestion on the type of 30' boat would be easy to dock. Or maybe its just a matter of practice.


many thanks.

If it has twin screws motors etc. docking is easyer if it has a bow thruster easyer yet. I bought a 2855 cerria and its a pain with tide and wind but 30 years of running single engine power boats has taught me to use the environment to my advantage when I can. let wind carry you to dock same with tide if not spend the money on good docking pole will save your hull.

[SteveSadler]

It's only challenging if you don't know how. Ask someone who drives boats daily to explain and show you how. Study up on you tube, and practice on a dock with nothing to hit. Just takes time.

[sailingchiro]

Docking with twins seemed intuitive to me. I have a friend that backs his VAgabond in a really tight marina using prop wash and back and fill. I can do it but raises heart rate at the same time. With twins, relaxed and no anxiety.

The reasons for me to have two smaller diesels instead of one larger one for a full displacement trawler.
1. docking
2. redundancy
3. long passages-run one engine at a time
4. parts are lighter
5. splitting time on hours
6. ability to work on non-running engine (replacing fuel filters)
7. really no need for a bow thruster (and cleaning barnacles out of it)
8. If two fuel tanks as well, two different fuel sources in case of contamination.
9. Charging batteries- no need to run two engines at the same time.
10. fuel economy.

But of course, I would want something bigger than a 36' possibly a 42'.

[John De Bree]

I have been on power boats all my life I found myself that as people have said before each boat will handle differently. To start off try putting your bow into the current or wind which ever is pushing you the hardest. As said by everyone go slow neutral is your friend. Come in on a slight angle slowly turning the bow let the wind or current do the work for you if you have someone who can throw a bow line out the boat will almost dock itself if you need to just gently shift into forwards or reverse to finish you only need a little touch. With practice you can handle any situation once you get to know your boat.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by yorkville

I am new to powerboating. Previous experince only in sailing dinghy and hobie cat.


I am thinking abt getting a ~30' powerboat for liveaboard. But I found docking to be very challenging on the few occasions I tried. I wonder if anyone has suggestion on the type of 30' boat would be easy to dock. Or maybe its just a matter of practice.


many thanks.

Buy one with a barn door rudder not a postage stamp.

[valhalla360]

When starting out, center the helm and just work the gear shifts (pausing in neutral between shifts). It drives like a tank.

Later when you get comfortable, you can play with the rudders and make it do some really cool things.

A single engine with bow thruster is almost as good but if there is any wave action, it can suck air and lose thrust. Also, people get too dependent on them and can't dock without them.

Biggest thing is to practice. Go find a 50ft slip and go in and out of it from different directions and under different wind conditions.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Shrew

....... in reverse, only prop walk controls the direction, not the rudder Only outboards and outdrives can be steered in reverse.

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Twin inboards can be steered in reverse (by using the engines), but singles cannot unless going backwards fast enough for the rudder to have some effect.

When I was referring to being 'steered', I meant by using the wheel and rudder. direction can be controlled and altered with prop walk, but IMHO I wouldn't consider that steering. Though we might be having a simple clash of symantec's here.