How large of a yacht can I afford?

[Mountain sailor]

Originally Posted by Hesti

If you are planning to do the big thing in 5 years, you can get something small now to gain some experience in the meantime. That is besides taking courses. 26 ft might be about right for a family with two small children.

Yes, exactly. My plan is to get a trailer sailer now for our local lakes and get some experience on the water and then move up from there.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Mountain sailor

First let me say that this is mostly a hypothetical question. My wife and I have recently become borderline obsessed with yachts and the live-aboard cruising lifestyle. We have a plan to, in 5-6 years, sell our house, our cars, and most of our possessions and take the kids to go cruising full time. We would homeschool (boatschool?) the boys and our first destination would be The Great Loop for a year or so. Then, we'd head off to the Bahamas, Caribbean, over to the West Coast and up to the PNW.

To my question: How much boat can we safely handle as a family of 4? Beyond that, what does it cost to have a permanent crew of 2? Do larger yachts get exponentially more expensive after going over a certain length, say 100' LOA or larger? We currently have a healthy income and my wife can work anywhere there is internet access. Just looking for some thoughts and experiences from other owners who cruise the larger yachts whether crewed or not.

I think you will find the boat that will work optimally for you doing the great loop and what will optimally work well for you after that first year are very different. You could go with two different boats, or go with what will work in the long run and live with it doing the Great Loop.

Spend the next few years before you buy, to learn to sail and handle a motor yacht, charter all different type and size boats, with and without crew. No doubt what you end up buying and the game plan will evolve. Enjoy the process! Not a bad idea to buy THE boat 1-2 years before taking the leap to for the family to get acclimated to their future home, find the crew if you go that route and get the boat they way you want it.

[Boat Guy]

Originally Posted by jim King

It would be a great idea for you and your family to do a crewed charter somewhere like in the BVI on a 52' catamaran..

Originally Posted by Augi

I think you will find the boat that will work optimally for you doing the great loop and what will optimally work well for you after that first year are very different. You could go with two different boats, or go with what will work in the long run and live with it doing the Great Loop.

Spend the next few years before you buy, to learn to sail and handle a motor yacht, charter all different type and size boats, with and without crew. No doubt what you end up buying and the game plan will evolve. Enjoy the process! Not a bad idea to buy THE boat 1-2 years before taking the leap to for the family to get acclimated to their future home, find the crew if you go that route and get the boat they way you want it.

So Augi's post was generally was I was going to suggest. Excitement is great, but slow it down a bit...First, I wouldn't ask "how big can I afford?" I'd ask, "how small can I go comfortably?" You will undertand once you start cruising the loop why that's a better question.


First, forget the sailing cat above about 40' because the airdraft will stop you in your tracks. The mast heights are to tall. So, you could get one and demast it for your trip, but plan accordingly....The loop is great, but you're paying a lot of boat expenses by the ft., so be reasonable. You've got bridge heights to contend with and draft issues and shoaling. Big, in this instance isn't better...I did a lot of the ICW in a Sea Ray cruiser. At the time of purchase I didn't realize what a great loop boat it was. I was able to get under most bridges without openings and I could cruise at 20kts when I needed to get somewhere. When I was just moving at hull speed, I was getting about 2.5 mpg...But I didn't have a family of 4 plus crew...My point is, you can always throw more money at the issue, buy a bigger boat or one with a name that will cost you 5x more, but make sure it's worth it. In the loop you will likely get a few bumps and groundings, etc... I guess if I was in your shoes I'd be looking at 50' power cat...Though, when you get off the loop you might decide it's not the vessel you want to take to the islands. You'll have the experience to decide.

[S Courtenay]

If it's just the two of you and your children, you might want to have a look at this - ran across it the other day and it's interesting - different. One guy says it's a 42 - 50 footer. Easy to sail and comfortable to get around. The first one in production will be on the water soon. There's a whole thing happening on Sailing Anarchy about it. Apparently it's stirring up a lot of interest. Here's the SA article and a website to look at.
https://sailinganarchy.com/2020/09/0...ts-what-it-is/
www.reddogyachts.com
Hope this helps.

[DeValency]

Sounds like the OP has a great fantasy - not too bad. Any voyage starts with a fantasy.

Now, while there are indeed great responses here and some are going into deep details, I'd suggest he (and so many others with the same dream) get more methodological if they are serious about it:

1. Set their exact expectations. For some reason, it sounds like the number 100' "yacht" comes from comparing an existing home dimensions, not from practical cruising considerations - these need a lot of learning. For the inexperienced, at least two intensive years just to get started.

2. But maybe before even going any deeper into the learning curve and process, the financials may blow this fantasy quite fast. It is important to understand the overall cost of owning a boat, even before leaving the dock.

-It is all subjective... For the 'say' 100' boat, the entry level of a purchase and refit is probably $3-4M of fast depreciating 'investment' - can you 'afford' this? More? as these easily go to $30M and more...

Iv'e seen families of 4 living and cruising globally on a 28' sailboat and singles on 120' boats (with a crew) and everything in between - so the annual costs can be $25K to $5M and more...

Personally, I wouldn't cruise on anything under 40' modern blue ocean boat and with two kids, probably go to 50-54'. But would also never go on a larger than 65' (relatively new) as I don't want to rely on crew and devote 80% of my life to maintenance.

3. Not less important; understand what's exactly does it mean to live and cruise year round (with unavoidable breaks for repairs). The limitations, dealing with weather, foreign countries, the distance, healthcare, planning and more planning.

Iv'e seen too many broken dreams of people sitting on their diminishing investments in marinas all over the world. While, personally, I can't think of anything better than sailing (well, almost... ), it is better to do the reality check as early as possible and reduce the potential pain.

[Wckoek]

I think given maintenance generally run about 10% of cost of boat, I say no more than 10% of your net worth.
How large a yacht depends on a lot of factors - if you can get the right berth at your area/place intending to sail, draft issue.
If money is not an issue I would like to have a mid 40 feet cruiser/racer where I can race and sail sometimes and a displacement powerboat under 80 feet where I can cruise off sailing season.

[petermjdavies]

Originally Posted by Mountain sailor

First let me say that this is mostly a hypothetical question. My wife and I have recently become borderline obsessed with yachts and the live-aboard cruising lifestyle. We have a plan to, in 5-6 years, sell our house, our cars, and most of our possessions and take the kids to go cruising full time. We would homeschool (boatschool?) the boys and our first destination would be The Great Loop for a year or so. Then, we'd head off to the Bahamas, Caribbean, over to the West Coast and up to the PNW.

To my question: How much boat can we safely handle as a family of 4? Beyond that, what does it cost to have a permanent crew of 2? Do larger yachts get exponentially more expensive after going over a certain length, say 100' LOA or larger? We currently have a healthy income and my wife can work anywhere there is internet access. Just looking for some thoughts and experiences from other owners who cruise the larger yachts whether crewed or not.

My hypothetical answer is. It depends.

How big a sail can the crew raise and lower under adverse conditions?

What is your crew plan for longer passages?

How many home comforts to stop the crew mutinying?

[DShant]

To my question: How much boat can we safely handle as a family of 4? Beyond that, what does it cost to have a permanent crew of 2? Do larger yachts get exponentially more expensive after going over a certain length, say 100' LOA or larger? We currently have a healthy income and my wife can work anywhere there is internet access. Just looking for some thoughts and experiences from other owners who cruise the larger yachts whether crewed or not.[/QUOTE]

Well I am interested to see someone in the forum with taste at least for larger boats. I follow a lot of questions and seldom see anything I can contribute to. I have a 105 Palmer Johnson and have owned a 130 and a 180 in the past as well as several sailboats in the 55- size range.

For a 100 footer you and your family of four assuming they are competent can handle the boat. Everyone needs to have experience and some instruction ie: course on navigation etc. helps. Someone needs to be mechanically inclined enough to handle systems and do basic repairs and maintenance. On the other hand if you all have no experience you will need at least a captain and an engineer. You can pay through the nose for these two guys but in general I have been able to get very experienced captains for around $4000 a month. Sometimes better. An engineer you can get for as little as $1800 a month if you take someone from say Brazil or another country where the wages are less shall I say extortionate than the US. In the US on the other hand a captain can ask for $1000 per foot per year and an engineer slightly less. Bad news.

Overall as a rule of thumb I would say a 100 footer will cost you about $10,000 a month sitting in Florida and not going anywhere. Florida is an expensive place to sit. If you are in say Roatan in Honduras on the other hand or many other islands in the Caribbean the expense would be half that and if you are on the hook somewhere they fall again although not as far as you might think. The main components of these costs are dockage, electricity, insurance and general maintenance for pumps that break or whatever. The only one you avoid on the hook is dockage.

If you want to move it gets expensive. Then you need the crew and you need fuel etc. Both of those will cost you more or less depending on how you
handle the boat. For example on my boat although it will do about 20 knts I generally cruise at 10 knts and I usually bring a friend and between us we can handle watchs and engineering so we can do with only a captain. On the other hand one of my friends has a 100 footer and he likes to cruise at 20 knts. His boat can do 30 knts. Well his fuel bill for a days cruising is about $1500. Mine is more like $250. He has a captain an engineer and a chef on board. That's going to run him minimum $4-500 a day even at my knockdown prices, whereas my captain will cost me about $150 so I'm burning $400 - $450 a day and he is burning $1800 - $2000 for the same day although he goes a little further!

The next big item is maintenance and repair. This can get really expensive. I remember once I went into a yard for a bottom job and to take a look at the props on my 130 as there was some vibration. That little trip cost me $350k. Again you don't want to be in Florida for repair and maintenance if you can avoid it. Sometimes you can't, for example I have Seakeeper gyroscopic zero speed stabilizers as well as Naiad fins on my boat. Last year I could get the Naiads worked on in Roatan but the Seakeepers I had to have worked on in Florida. The Naiad work involved taking out one fin and repairing some components in the actuators as well as grinding down and reskinning both fins. That cost me about $2k. The Seakeepers involved some wiring and replacement of one component. I managed to get a deal on the component and although the guys only spent two days on the boat that bill was over $5k.

So a bottom job that would cost you $30 - $40k in Florida will cost you $5000 in Honduras or Trinidad. Same thing with varnish work, re plating and other sorts of non complicated tasks. Nonetheless you will need to budget $100,000 a year for a 100 footer whether you use it each year or not. Sooner or later it will bite you.

So that's the bad news. The good news is you have a floating luxurious home. Your home is exponentially more stable and comfortable than anything in the sub 50 foot range. You can sit in your salon watching a movie or reading a book while traveling at 10 knts in comfort while a 50 footer would be bouncing around like a cork on the ocean. That's not to say that it can't get uncomfortable but it takes a much greater sea state. I remember passing by the Dry Tortugas one time sitting in my office working on the internet and looking out the porthole I saw a poor guy on the fore deck of his 30 foot sailboat trying to douse a sail with out falling overboard while his boat pitched and rolled like a bucking bronco.

You can take showers and use as much water as you want. Your air conditioning is cold and works all the time unobtrusively. Your cocktails are full of ice. You sleep in a real bed and use a regular size bathroom. You can sit in the stern salon in air conditioned comfort or loll on the flybridge deck in the sunshine. You carry dive and fishing gear and a tank compressor. You carry a nice sized dinghy like an 15 footer with a 120hp to get you around in comfort. You have a davit to lift it out of the water. Basically it is another world compared to a boat half that size. And the same goes as you move up in size. Bottom line if you can afford it go for it. It is an incomparable quality of life!!

[Woodland Hills]

I am wanting to upgrade to a $1m to $1.5m boat, can anyone suggest where I can find the money?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Mountain sailor

On the financial side, currently we have about $30K/month coming in with the potential to increase to ~$70K/month by the time we make the lifestyle change in about 6 years. We are HENRYs (High Earners, Not Rich Yet). I'm not shy about talking financials as it is an important part of the boating equation.

Man .................................................. if I had anywhere near that $$$$$ coming I sure wouldn't be wasting my time with this place!!!!!!

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Next, A proper 60 to 70 foot nice yacht will start at 2 million and could go to 3.

Or perhaps they could buy second hand for a very small fraction of that price

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Man .................................................. if I had anywhere near that $$$$$ coming I sure wouldn't be wasting my time with this place!!!!!!

Amen!

[Sailing August]

The best advice I ever received was to:

"Buy the smallest boat you can stand not the biggest boat you can afford"

Very sound advice....

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Man .................................................. if I had anywhere near that $$$$$ coming I sure wouldn't be wasting my time with this place!!!!!!

Having just got to that bit I agree

[sailorxyz]

You are asking totally the wrong question... You should be asking "what is the smallest boat that can do what I need". Next question would be how much technology do you want? More tech, the more you are tied to western marinas. What will you do when the tech stops working? And it will....