New To Boating And Need Help On Costs Please!!

[Joey_81phantom]

Originally Posted by GPSocal

Joey
The purchase price is only the beginning of cash outflow when you buy a boat. Moorage, repair and maintenance, fuel, insurance and registration fees etc. can be big ticket items.

Right now I own a smaller boat. It's 17' and I love it, but my friends were with me on it on day and they were wanting to do a weekend trip on it. Well problem is we can't... Yada yada. But I have an idea of the upkeep on this little thing I'm just needing to know how much more a, 30' for example, would cost.

[CPseudonym]

Originally Posted by Joey_81phantom

Right now I own a smaller boat. It's 17' and I love it, but my friends were with me on it on day and they were wanting to do a weekend trip on it. Well problem is we can't... Yada yada. But I have an idea of the upkeep on this little thing I'm just needing to know how much more a, 30' for example, would cost.

Price berths in your local area and add 50% for a ball park estimate of upkeep moving up from 17 to 30' Joey. Get an insurance quote from your agent to firm up the estimate.

[Mimsy]

Originally Posted by Joey_81phantom

Ok so I'm wanting to get a new boat that may be similar to a trawler. I want to have the nice living/kitchen/dining room and some rooms for about 7-10 people to sleep. But there are a lot of choices out there and I don't want to spend more than 20,000 on the whole thing. I need help figuring out what kind of boat is right for me, what I need to get it to me and into the lake, and how much the upkeep is going to be... Like fuel costs. Please help!

[ranger58sb]

Joey, for real trawlers and trawler-like boats, go to yachtworld.com and have a look.

Mostly you'll find a range from smallish 40-year-old versions likely with glass-over-wood superstructure (more likely on craiglist or elsewhere) in the $20-50K range, larger boats that could sleep 7-10 in the $200K-2M range. I've described it perhaps overly broadly, to illustrate the need to pin it down a bit closer, but still...

OTOH, decent houseboats could conceivably run from $10K to $200K, depending. Not sure of a place that typically lists houseboats.... maybe that's a craigslist thing, too, and maybe local market magazines, dealers, marinas, etc.

Depending on where you are, perhaps you could rent/charter a houseboat, and also houseboat rental/charter companies might be a useful place to search for factoids, as well.

Once you have some clearer idea of boats (and sizes) that might fit your requirements, it might be easier for everyone to better estimate operating costs. In the meantime, a common rule of thumb is (I think still) $10% of purchase price per year. Some of that depends on if you do your own work. For instance, our engine techs here charge $95/hour... so I can save somewhat by doing my own oil changes, etc... and the word "save" here depends on how much I value my own time.

(The remark about GG is about another current researcher on here, looking for a passage maker to permanently live aboard with her family of 6-7, so far with a budget of $600K.)

-Chris

[Autumns Wind]

You can find a good boat for 20k. Depends on what your looking for.... Our first sailboat was a 29' Seafare slept 5/6 for $1,500. A great nearshore cruising sailboat. My point is you can find your boat. Go to yachtworld or boats.com. Price depends on how much work you want to do your self.
Operating coast... IMO a boat owner will spend $700-$1000 per a foot per a year on up keep and
marina fees.
For the wealthy, price is not an issue and the mention of a 20k boat is not even possible, exept it be there dingy.
My wife and I wanted a three stateroom sailboat, hull only. We wanted our kids to have there own room. After 9 months of looking we purchased our Morgan 33 classic with a 30HP diesel motor for under 5k. We have it on the hard for a total refit. By the time were done we will have a new like boat for under 25k. We are doing all the work except the stainless bimini/canvas work and the rigging with new sails. So take your time go to boat shows and ask lots of questions. You will find your dream boat. Cheers

[Mimsy]

Originally Posted by Autumns Wind

You can find a good boat for 20k. Depends on what your looking for.... Our first sailboat was a 29' Seafare slept 5/6 for $1,500. A great nearshore cruising sailboat. My point is you can find your boat. Go to yachtworld or boats.com. Price depends on how much work you want to do your self.
Operating coast... IMO a boat owner will spend $700-$1000 per a foot per a year on up keep and
marina fees.
For the wealthy, price is not an issue and the mention of a 20k boat is not even possible, exept it be there dingy.
My wife and I wanted a three stateroom sailboat, hull only. We wanted our kids to have there own room. After 9 months of looking we purchased our Morgan 33 classic with a 30HP diesel motor for under 5k. We have it on the hard for a total refit. By the time were done we will have a new like boat for under 25k. We are doing all the work except the stainless bimini/canvas work and the rigging with new sails. So take your time go to boat shows and ask lots of questions. You will find your dream boat. Cheers

I have to disagree with your upkeep numbers- we do not normally spend $42,000 a year on upkeep or marina fees. Marina fees vary depending on where you are but those numbers are extraordinarily high.

May I ask how far along in your refit you are? Very curious as t how your project is going.

[Autumns Wind]

We are about halfway through... Just meet with the rep from north sails on the main. The two biggiest expenses so far are my custom sails and electronics. Which have exceeded our budget a little, but we want the name of our boat printed in the main sail like you see in the Americas cup. (our boat is named after our little girl Autumn) So far we have spent a little over $12k. Again my wife and I have done 80% of the work. The engine is a 30HP universal diesel with 374hrs in fresh water only. We had it serviced and was told in excellent condition. A hudge savings to the budget...

As far as my numbers I said the average person with a power boat. The person who hires people for every thing. Oil changes, bottom cleaning, waxing, the once a month boat trip gas bill, marina fees. I would bet a person with a 40' power boat can easily spend $1500 a month in just fuel. Now sailors were cheap, we believe in solar power, & wind generators. smiling... Ya I would say my number is high, but on a older powet boat a rebuilt motor could easily cost $10k. So when you look at a 10yr window of owner ship for a power boat it can become costly. You might not spend 700-1000 but over time you will pay or like most people with big power boats they just sit and look pretty.

Our budget for us living on a 27' sailboat is $1000 a month. Which includes Marina fees and the boat upkeep. We go sailing once a month to get away from the work of the refit.

[chris_gee]

I don't think I would buy a boat for other people to come out on. They rarely do consistently.
Sure you might jam in six for a weekend.
I think you should look at what boats are available in your price range and how they suit.
The 10 percent cost of maintenance does not hold very well for boats that need a lot of work. They tend to be the cheap ones. It depends how much you can do yourself. A new motor may well cost you 20K up.
A berth depends where you are but could be 500 mth. Fuel say .3 gal mile depending. Insurance 500 pa. General maintenance painting etc 2k pa. It is hard to be accurate without specifics especially since using terms like kitchen dining room and lounge suggests you don't know a lot. Whatever it will be far more expensive than you think. I suggest you take a walk along a marina and talk to some owners and look at their boats. In your price range I suspect you would be looking at some pretty rough boats that would prove very expensive.

[Tingum]

After over 45 years of boating my advice is simple: forget it!

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Autumns Wind

As far as my numbers I said the average person with a power boat. The person who hires people for every thing. Oil changes, bottom cleaning, waxing, the once a month boat trip gas bill, marina fees. I would bet a person with a 40' power boat can easily spend $1500 a month in just fuel.

Geez...

No, your average powerboater probably doesn't actually throw money around like that... many actually do their own work... and have the skinned knuckles and lacerations to show for it

We spend about $2K/year in diesel. Combination of short trips, slow speed when sea states permit, etc.

-Chris

[Joey_81phantom]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Geez... No, your average powerboater probably doesn't actually throw money around like that... many actually do their own work... and have the skinned knuckles and lacerations to show for it We spend about $2K/year in diesel. Combination of short trips, slow speed when sea states permit, etc. -Chris

Ok 2K a year I can deal with. What's an average GPH I might be looking at?

[rgscpat]

Buy a wrecked houseboat with a dead engine, make it look pretty inside, and tow it around the lake with your 17-footer (maybe get a second prop pitched for more power at lower rpm). Problem solved, cheap. Or if you only need to move it a couple of times a year and there's a tow boat on your lake, get a towing club membership.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Joey_81phantom

Ok 2K a year I can deal with. What's an average GPH I might be looking at?

Well, that might not apply to your eventual solution. Our boat is 42' with twin 450-hp diesels, and when we cruise on plane we burn about 26 GPH. OTOH, when we putter at hull speed we only burn about 4 GPH, so we can slightly "manage" our fuel costs that way. And we spend more time at the dock than we should (that pesky day job).

Keep in mind that marine diesel is usually less expensive than marine gasoline. OTOH, the engines cost maybe 3-4x as much as gas up front, so not every boat you'll see will have diesels. And... if you were to do the math, there's a point where gas is a better choice anyway... usually based on the amortization schedule.

IOW, YMMV... a lot.

Keep in mind that even though the boat is 42' long, no way we're sleeping more than 6 onboard, and even that's only under extreme duress. Even 4 aboard (two guests) puts me out of sorts.

-Chris

[CPseudonym]

I agree with Chris above.

General rule of thumb is less than $30,000 buy a gas powered boat over $30k start looking at diesel. Diesel engines are so expensive up front that there's not typically the value in the rest of the boat. Gassers, especially older well cared for examples, can be had for well under $30k that are in good shape.

Of course the larger a cheap boat gets the more work(read here money) its going to take to get it up to scratch. What's your hobby, boating or fixing up boats? Mine is boating so I purchase boats that need no work to enjoy the day I buy them.

My boat is a 1967 all fiberglass Owens. Needed nothing as it was just completely refit and purchased for way way south of $20,000. It can entertain 6 in snug comfort and often sleeps 4 as we have kids at home still but it's most comfortable as a couples boat.

10% of purchase price annual ownership cost may be a decent rule of thumb in the $50k+ price range but under $30k its more like 25+% annually depending upon berthage rates locally in my opinion. Hence my earlier recommendation to shop for berth rates and add 50% for a ball park annual figure.

Fuel burn is your problem. As Chris rightly pointed out above, that's all on you and your driving style Joey. Slow them down to save fuel spool them up and watch your tank drain.

[Captain Mack28]

Read "The Essentials of Living Aboard a Boat" by Mark Nicholas. Post when you're done.