Power Boat Cruiser

[ranger58sb]

Yep. What makes a good bread? Car? Book? Song?

We used a checklist of features we wanted (post #10). Probably useless for anyone else.

Even basics tend to be mission-specific, with legit benefits on either side of the coin:
- gas vs. diesel?
- single engine or twin?
- flying bridge... or not?
- etc.

I found Beebe's book very useful for learning about cross-ocean cruising. Not much of that applies to our situation, but it was good reading.

-Chris

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

There was a lot of good input, but the OP was pretty broad. What makes a good power cruiser?

Yes it was a broad question because I don't know specific questions to ask. So I asked power boat cruisers what I should look for in a power boat for it to be a good cruiser. I thought they would know what they liked and didn't like about theirs.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Yes it was a broad question because I don't know specific questions to ask. So I asked power boat cruisers what I should look for in a power boat for it to be a good cruiser. I thought they would know what they liked and didn't like about theirs.

I think part of the issue is just intended usage. The pool of power boaters that do significant offshore cruising and not just coastal stuff is just not that big.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I think part of the issue is just intended usage. The pool of power boaters that do significant offshore cruising and not just coastal stuff is just not that big.

Ok

How about for Power cruiser to do coastal, Bahamas, Caribbean, Mexico. Nothing longer than US to Bermuda.

[mvweebles]

Speed: Personal decision and hugely impacts credit card limit. If 175 NM days are acceptable, (7-1/2 kts), a displacement hull will generally burn under 2 gph or around 4 nm/gal. If you want to go faster, you won't have room for the fuel needed unless you get a much larger boat or are satisfied with shorter runs, say Florida to Bahamas.

Range: fuel sufficient for 20% reserve. Bermuda is roughly 750 nms, so figure 250 gals with reserve. NA to Hawaii is the longest leg in a circumnavigation at around 2400 nms. Would need 720 gals incl reserve.

Reserve propulsion. It's a huge debate in the trawler set. As a single engine guy, it's bit something I can't dismiss entirely. I have tens of thousands of hours on diesels without a shut down, plus have driven hundreds of thousands of trouble-free miles in cars - I rarely even check oil anymore. But still, it's in the back of my mind (wonder if I'd worry about being dismasted in a sailboat?). Twin engines or get home power, even sail would be helpful. I will say that diesels in trawlers tend to be much more robust than the lightweight Yanmars sailors have become accustomed to. My boat has the range to get to Hawaii. I have no desire but if I did, I would rig some sort of sail plan as a get-somewhere option.

Engine room. Gotta have room to work on the engine. Part of the reason sailors are so circumspect of engines is they tend to avoid maintenance, largely because it's difficult on many sailboats.

Design. Just as sailboats have D/L ratios, power cruisers have their own. A/B ratio is my favorite. It's the side profile ratio of Above/Below waterline. Lower is better - under 2.0 is favored for open ocean work. There are also stability ratios on roll period that need to be calculated for each boat based on trim and load - shorter is better. Example: In the Perfect Storm, the Andrea Gail had been modified with more weight above that increased the roll period and reduce stability. AVS - Angle of Vanishing Stability. At what angle will the vessel simply roll over and stay there?

Unfortunately these design parameters are not commonly available for vast majority of boats. Exception are those designed for ocean crossing. Nordhavn publishes theirs, though I question their numbers a bit as they are calculated for a bare boat when most are equipped with a flybridge.

Stabilization. Those who have a stabilized boat would not venture far without stabilization ever again. Those who don't have a stabilized boat say it's not needed. 'Nuff said.

Accommodations. There are a lot of trawler owners who have movable furniture and such. I cannot imagine going too far with such a boat. I'm more of a sailor type. I want stuff secured. I don't anticipate a knockdown, but a 45 degree roll isn't incredibly rare. No different than a sailboat. You need room to carry provisions, equipment, spares, and gear such as a Dinghy, but that's no different than a sailboat too.

General heavy weather capabilities. In my opinion, leaving aside deisre to encounter heavy weather. designing a boat that can withstand Force 8 conditions is affordable. Getting past that is expensive. What does that mean? Ability to take green water over decks. Ability to shed green water. Heavy ports and lights that are water tight to spray. Etc. On an ocean crossing,, because it's outside a 3 day weather forecast you need more contingency. But for Bermuda (4 days), and the patience to travel in-season, you probably don't need a fully robust boat

I'd hazard that fewer than 1% of trawler owners have spent more than two consecutive nights underway on their boat. Maybe a lot less. Yet there are strong opinions on how a boat should be built and equipped. I cannot account for that. All I can speak from is my experience. While I have never crossed an ocean, I have some very long runs - several of more than 1500 nms. But I did it because the weather was acceptable. Had it not been, I could divert with a couple days notice.

In closing, there are many more similarities than differences between power and sail. Most if the skill sets are similar and the mindset need not be dissimilar but often is. Sailors tend to be more austere which I like.

Peter

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Yes it was a broad question because I don't know specific questions to ask. So I asked power boat cruisers what I should look for in a power boat for it to be a good cruiser. I thought they would know what they liked and didn't like about theirs.

That would have been a much easier question. See again my post #10.

I don't imagine at all that our preferences make it a universal "good cruiser," though. The features we like suit us, without regard to anyone else.

Note: For example, I didn't include stabilizers, an earlier sub-topic here. I think stabilizers are generally a good thing, but I don't really need 'em, they're not all that common on the boats we like, I don't wanna (er... probably can't afford to) pay for 'em. Peter would maybe more likely favor stabilizers. Different strokes, I suspect largely fueled by different missions, different cruising grounds, different cruising styles, etc.

What's better, sloop or ketch? Folks who chose one or the other likely had their reasons, but it doesn't mean either is a "good cruiser" for everyone else.

-Chris

[Ifitsworthdoing]

Look at Dutch motor boats - such as Linsen, Aquanaut, de Boarnstream - they are Europe's premier builders of slow power cruisers. Browse their offerings to get a feel for what their customers prefer. Also check out the nominees and winners of the annual European Powerboat Awards - their USPs will tell you what's hot (and hint at what's not).

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I thought there would be "good to have" items that a sail boater wouldn't think of. If so lets hear them.

Most coastal sailboat cruisers motor most of the time...so not a lot different.

Of course, you have to define the type of cruising and type of power boat.
- Offshore power boats are a specialty niche where range starts to control a lot of the design.
- Displacement vs Planning hull. Talk about rolling is mostly a displacement issue. And don't forget power cats.
- How well do you handle stairs and climbing. Flybridge and aft cabin boats tend to have more. If you are mostly hanging out on rivers or inland lakes, a houseboat can be a great option that minimizes stairs.
- Lots of other considerations that drive the design.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Traveling and living by boat along the US coast, Canada, Berumda, Bahamas, Caribbean, Mexico and Central America

What's your budget and what are your speed expectations?

We switched from a 31ft Twin V8 power boat to a 34ft catamaran with a 25hp outboard when we switched from weekending to doing the Great Loop.

MPG went from 1.5 to 6.0 but we gave up 20kt cruise for 6kt cruise.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

I went through the same exercise when I purchased my Hunter 46. I just went through the same exercise when I recently purchased a Symbol 50 sundeck powerboat. The "good to have" items I was looking for and got were:

1. Newer electronics at upper and lower helms - by coincidence it came with same Raymarine navigation system at both helms as my sailboat so no learning curve.
2. Nearly and fully operational instrumentation at upper and lower helms without uv sun damage.
2. Autopilot.
3. Two cabins with walk around queen-size or larger beds with walk-in heads and showers.
4. Diesel engines.
5. Air conditioning.
6. Diesel heater.
7. Shore water, 50 amp and 30 amp connections port and starboard.
8. No major survey issues, only limited deferred maintenance and cosmetic updating.
9. No window and door leaks.
9. Good value for money without paying high sales tax and on-going personal property tax.

All those apply equally well to sail boats.

[TooCoys]

What I like about my boat:

-Room. We live aboard full time and because of the room in our boat, it feels more like an efficiency apartment, than a boat.
-Twin engines. Makes docking and maneuvering much easier.
-Deck space. Our upper deck essentially doubles our living space and is great for entertaining.
-Amenities. Things like a "normal" size fridge/freezer, two heads with separate stand up showers, 23lb/day ice maker, and a walk around queen berth make it easy to live in.
-Speed. I can get their 6 hours earlier than our sail friends, or I can throttle back and motor along with them. I can also outrun the weather if I need to.


What I don't like about my boat:

-Gas engines. They're great and cheap to fix for local cruising, but if we ever decide to do some serious island hopping we'll either have to buy a different boat or repower with small diesels.
- Stairs. We have lot of stairs. Stairs to board the boat, stairs to go down into the salon, stairs to go down into the galley, stairs to go down into the berths.
-Hull design. The planing hull rolls really easily, a displacement hull with a keel might be a little more stable.
-Lack of a lower helm. Means that I'm always on the flybridge driving, where some trawler friends can driving in the air conditioned helms of their salon.


When it comes to sail vs power, there were two major deal breakers for us. The first was that we didn't like the room restrictions of the monohulls. Feels too much like living in a tunnel. The other big deal breaker for my spouse was that a monohull heels over while under sail. My spouse refused to accept or tolerate that. If we could afford a sailing catamaran we would have, but that is likely not going to happen in this lifetime.

There advantages and disadvantages to everything, but what we have now works for us, at this time in our lives. It may not always. Or it may be the boat we have for the rest of our lives. Who knows. What I can tell you though is that if we had listened to the internet, or local boating community, we wouldn't have what we have because everyone is a nay-sayer if you're not doing it their way. Find what works for you.

[Jongig]

I just read through this thread, I found it interesting. We've never gone out of our lake with a boat much and are considering going up the Hudson to Lake Champlain and maybe Quebec. Considering a new boat ourselves, since it'll still be on our lake it can't be too large, maybe 30' at most, 27' now. I came up with I'd like 2-engines and a genset. I could stay with a single engine but if anything happens a genset is really important, my thoughts. The issue we're having is trying to find a boat because dealers no longer have much and I was looking at a Crownline 294 but they say they're no longer going to make them.

Boating is great...

John