Power Cat or Sailing Cat?

[CatNewBee]

Diesel costs are different in various countries., marine diesel costs in the Med between 1.50€ to 2€ per liter. One gal is 4.5l, so the cost per gal would translate to 6.75€ ... 9€, and this are 7.65...10.20 US$ per gallon.

According to your mileage per galon, 2/3 nm per dollar and 4 dollar per gallon, you make a little less than 3nm per gallon, 1000 Eur buy you 120gal or 360nm and not 660.

And a real power cat needs more than a galon per nm.

[CatNewBee]

https://www.boatingmag.com/leopard-43-powercat

Here the data for the leopard 43 PC. -1mpg at cruising speed 14kn. Twin 320hp Yanmar diesel, 200gal fuel tank gives a operating range of 200nm to the next fuel stop., ocean passage is 2700nm Atlantic xing from Cannaries to St. Lucia (ARC), you'll need 15 fuel stations on the ocean to get there.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

https://www.boatingmag.com/leopard-43-powercat

Here the data for the leopard 43 PC. -1mpg at cruising speed 14kn. Twin 320hp Yanmar diesel, 200gal fuel tank gives a operating range of 200nm to the next fuel stop., ocean passage is 2700nm Atlantic xing from Cannaries to St. Lucia (ARC), you'll need 15 fuel stations on the ocean to get there.

Huge engines compared to my twin 30hp. That extra 6 knots really requires a lot of fuel and engine.

I'm getting 2.66 miles per gallon at 8 knots.

150 gallons capacity on mine now.

So that's 6 or 7 fuel stops for mine crossing the same 2700 miles. Still not possible of course.

[redsx1]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This is a tough one.

I'm drawn to the idea of sailing and possibly crossing an ocean or two under sail. I've been sailing my whole life in North and South America.

I am trying to determine if my next boat should be a powercat or a sailing cat.

I like solitude and quiet living on the hook with an occasional stay in a marina.

I want range. I want to cross oceans without needing to fill up the tanks. I also want economy. I am happy to spend money on fuel. I mean you can buy a lot of fuel for the cost of sails and a rig. However, I'd like to get there efficiently and at a good speed.

For this reason I'm leaning toward a foiling power cat.

Does anyone think it's a stupid idea to forget all about sailing and just do a foiling power cat?

What about resale value?

I'm thinking of the thread "Cruising Sailboats a dying breed". It's pretty apparent people don't really want to sail anymore and as the current sailors age out, they are being replaced with people who want to charter or want to own simple, reliable boats that are easy to take out, run and maintain.

Does this mean a power cat is more attractive at resale these days and into the future?

They sure cost a lot more new right now. Why is that?

I'm hiw

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Did you see this one?
Arctic Northwest Passage: Power Catamaran DOMINO is for Sale

Been watching her for a while.
Bit of a bargain at that price.

Edit:
NOT a bargain at ^^that^^ price.
Is a bargain at this price
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...no-20-3223885/

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

But in contrast, the rebuild/replace cost on larger diesels is pretty horrendous.

Large diesels last a long time
Around 35000 hours is pretty common rebuild time for our 855 Cummins.
I reckon she'll outlive us several times over.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Diesel .

And a real power cat needs more than a galon per nm.

Rubbish.
Plenty of non production power cats already getting around 2.5nm/gallon.
Just aim for trawler speed so 8 to 10 knots.

Interestingly enough the fuel burn for a power cat at that speed is pretty similar to what be burn.
We get about 2nm/gallon at 7.5 knots shifting 65 tonne carrying a lot more comfort.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Rubbish.
Plenty of non production power cats already getting around 2.5nm/gallon.
Just aim for trawler speed so 8 to 10 knots.

I'd say your numbers are spot on.

I'm getting 2.66nm/gallon at 8 knots currently.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Chotu

The. Thing is.... Engines are way cheaper than a rig for my boat. Plus I already have them.

So basically it costs me $60,000 to sail or $0 to be a trawler type power cat.

Worst case scenario I spend $30K on brand new engines since I am running twin 30hp currently.

But I can also sell these 30hp engines if I want to go up in power, offsetting the cost of the upgrade.

I feel a lot of people talking about how cheap sailing is have never bought a complete rig before. It's way WAY more money to buy a mast, boom, forward beam/seagull striker, winches, lines, traveler, sails, furlers, etc.. than engines are for the same boat.

Thanks for the name of the boat to Google. Checking it out

If you're willing to do some DIY, a rig and sails needn't cost that much.

I bought a mast section, with some friends fabricated spreaders, sheave boxes, mast step etc. The complete 16m rig ended up costing around $14000. (Aus)

Winches and deck gear, maybe $5-6000.

New sails were $7500.

[bluenomads]

We've been through the same. I also compared the fuel efficiency of published (some questionable of course) power cats that interested us. We finally found our boat that we hope will do what we want and probably many things you want to do too - they are out there, but there's not many!

We ended up with a 1998 50' aluminium power catamaran, narrow enough to potter through the French canals but with the range to go across oceans, strong enough to expedition in the PNW and far north and small enough to do the Great Loop and "European Great Loop". Old enough to be cheap enough for us . Small enough to be a big handful, big enough to handle some waves and wind. Big enough to handle weight and eventual conversion to hybrid electric, small enough to not need a crew .

You can find some facts and figures, comparisons etc. on our very basic blog bluenomads.blog.

[Pizzazz]

My understanding regarding fuel efficiency is:

Motorboats 1-2 nm/gallon
Trawlers 2-4 nm/gallon
Small sailboats 8-10 nm/gallon
Large sailboats 2-6 no/gallon

Obviously, the sailboats will sail if there is wind. Given this, isn’t the easiest to get a small sailboat (the smallest that will give you the amenities that you need) and add a bladder when you need to cover 3,000 nm? You then always have the option to sail if your engines break down.

In moderate weather, my H31 burns 0.5 gph, giving 10 nmg. I will have difficulty fitting 300 gallons of fuel in the boat, but you can easily fit two 85 gallon bladders, giving a range of close to 2,000 nm.

The point I am making is that if you want range, you cannot do better than a sailing boat with additional bladders. May be a boat around 40 ft would be ideal.

If you want a cat, you have to trade high speed for everything else, and if you get regular cruising speed then the equation really changes.

Just to help the OP, power cats are not long range cruisers. They could be but it is not their original design.

If you want long range under power, you need a trawler (optimal but slow and expensive), a real yacht (fantastic but really expensive) or a converted sailboat (cheap, slow and pleasant but you must like sailboats to begin with.

Also, please rethink slow vs. fast. Crossing an ocean at 6 knots average speed takes three weeks, achievable on any vessel most of the time if you are willing to motor when the wind drops. It is not that long. If you could do the crossing in two weeks instead of three, how much time are you really saving, including the preparation, waiting for weather, maintenance... speed alone is not that important. Think about crossing the ocean on a jet. If it takes 9 or 12 hours, do you care that much when you add the airport and taxi time? You do not. Unless you do it every week then you fly business class or (in the past, took the Concorde). It is the same with boats. If are crossing oceans once a quarter, you would know exactly what you are looking. If only once in a blue moon then... just get a coastal boat and forget about the range.

[Chotu]

@pizzazz

Brilliant post. Really gets me thinking. Bladders are the perfect accessories to add some range.

My boat is a sailboat so my engines muat be horribly tuned based on the above numbers, given 30hp engines are getting 2.66. I think I need to tune these first and go from there.

[tomfl]

Hard to answer a question with so few constraints. Crossing the Atlantic is usually a lot easier than crossing the Pacific in a traditional cruisers route. As others have mentioned in some places fuel is easy to find, clean, and at a lower price than in many places cruisers like to go. Places like the Med would mean easy to find fuel and fairly short hops unless you wanted to avoid stops. In the Bahamas/Carib it is common to find old dirty fuel at high prices. Same is probably true for a lot of what I will call traditional cruising grounds in the Pacific.

There is also the issue of storing fuel for long cruises, it weighs a lot and cats as a rule don't respond well to added weight. For a foiler weight is a death knell. You can find lots of threads about dirty fuel, or fuel getting dirty from being stored for too long in humid conditions with temperature extremes.

Not saying a power cat is a deal breaker. I know guys who buy fuel in Florida and spend say a month in the Bahamas and have no problem. But for a trip across the Pacific you would need to plan out fuel stops and hope to get lucky with price and dirty fuel.

Which brings up the constraint of your personal definition of what cruising is. I spent three months going from Marathon to DT and back on my Seawind 1000. Sailed on and off anchorages and waited for the right wind direction. In that three months I burned less than five gallons of gas. There was a 90 foot motor yacht that had a Yellowfin 32 as it's tender who anchored next me for a week in DT. He burned more than that just starting up his 90 footer.

Not trying to judge which is the best way to cruise; just pointing out that if you have a clear definition of how/where/for how long you want to cruise it is easier to get the right boat.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Quadrille in JB

Cats are definitely out for many canals in Europe. The controlling width in the locks was 17’. With our 14’ beam with 12” fenders on each side we had 6” clearance per side.
We spent 3 months from Marseille to Amsterdam and it was a great trip.
Air draft is definitely important also as we sometimes scraped our Bimini even though we had removed our masts and shipped them to Berlin.
Sorry about the second pic, it’s a Le Boat rental that we saw along the way. I chose it by mistake and couldn’t delete it.

Obviously, depends on the specific model the OP is looking to buy but no need for 25' beam on a power cat..the big beam on a sailing cat is to generate more righting moment.

In the 30-40 foot range, lots of cats could fit.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

A true powercat is much different than a sailing cat converted to a power only cat. The hull design is completely different with the true powercat designed for optimum speed and some lift. By switching to a longer monohull with more sail area like the 62 we now have, faster average speeds can also be attained in this manner.

A planing or semi-planing power cat hull is much different. If you want 20-30kt cruise, that's what you need.

If the OP would be happy with an 8-10kt cruise and 15kt top end, sailing cat hulls work very well. Add big tanks and slow to 6kts and ocean crossing is a viable option.

Foiling....doesn't work with ocean crossing range.