Question for Cruising Trawlers

[Rocketman]

This has been and interesting foum to read, since I got back from the Bahama's, I also noticed about a 20-1 ratio of powerboats to sailboats. I personally have no problems with any type of boat, but I did notice that there were a lot more tawlers parked at slips, then were anchored. The costs of traveling, slip fee's, AC and such on a trawler, I would guess to be significantly higher. When I have to cruise my boat in no wind conditions, meaning motor all the way, I get about 10MPG, if I am motor sailing it goes up to about 20MPG. After talking with trawler owners that go maybe 1-2 MPH faster at conservitive motoring they get maybe 5MPG. They generaly do not have the range that I have, and are constained more by weather. Many times the perfect conditions for a sailboat (15kts of wind on the beam) is not comfortable at all in a trawler. As far as anchoring goes, I think it is more about how the owner anchors the boat, what type of anchor capasity that particular boat has for the conditions they are in then the type of boat. I also think that in general, trawler owners do not feel as comfortable anchoring as they do tied up to a slip.

[Tom.B]

And I would generally agree with all that. I certainly understand the limitations our coastal trawler has over seaworthy blow-boats. It has, in the right conditions, caused the First Mate to ask if maybe we wanted to shift over to the sailing genre. Interesting possibility, but I can't get into the mindset just yet. TBH, I see sailing like golf. It's easy to teach someone to hit the ball, but you'll spend a lifetime trying to master the game. I just can't invest that kind of time yet. I want to point-and-go.

[BillAU]

Reading the two post above from Rocketman and GonzoF1, am I right in thinking that over a five year period, in similar conditions, the trawler cost less to power than a sailboat of the same size? Even though the powerboat gets less MPG than the sailboat. After all, the powerboat has no replacement or running cost for sails, mast/s and rigging?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GonzoF1

And I would generally agree with all that. I certainly understand the limitations our coastal trawler has over seaworthy blow-boats. It has, in the right conditions, caused the First Mate to ask if maybe we wanted to shift over to the sailing genre. Interesting possibility, but I can't get into the mindset just yet. TBH, I see sailing like golf. It's easy to teach someone to hit the ball, but you'll spend a lifetime trying to master the game. I just can't invest that kind of time yet. I want to point-and-go.

Try it, you'll like it. It is as complicated as rocket science if you want it to be, but to get from point A to Point B you need no more knowledge than you can pick up in a well-structured weekend.

As to the cost issue, I agree with those who doubt that sailing is much, if any cheaper than power boating, especially on a bigger boat and when you replace sails and rigging from time to time.

But that's not the point. As you correctly suspect, sailboats are much more comfortable and safe in a seaway than a mobo of comparable size. And there is no describing the magic and joy of being under way under sail, being soundlessly propelled by the wind. Now that's really the point of sailing

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But that's not the point. As you correctly suspect, sailboats are much more comfortable and safe in a seaway than a mobo of comparable size.

Weather prediction being what it is these days powered vessels can do their passage miles when there is no wind or seaway therefore having a calm passage.

Sailing vessels in the same weather pattern have to motor as well and drag an expensive mast and suit of sails through the air.

And there is no describing the magic and joy of being under way under sail, being soundlessly propelled by the wind. Now that's really the point of sailing

Novelty wears off after a while imho, especially if you do strike a bit of weather.
Destination is where it's at for most.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by BillAU

Reading the two post above from Rocketman and GonzoF1, am I right in thinking that over a five year period, in similar conditions, the trawler cost less to power than a sailboat of the same size? Even though the powerboat gets less MPG than the sailboat. After all, the powerboat has no replacement or running cost for sails, mast/s and rigging?

I worked out for my boat that I would be up for about $70k in mast rigging and winches.
Thats probably enough to motor around the world 3x

Every 5 to 7 years years (based on wire and sail longevity of previous cat) I would probably be up for another suit of sails and wire, so another $15 to 20k

I can put that $70k for mast , deck gear and sails + the next lot of sails and wire in the bank earning 5%and the interest off of that will go a long way to paying the yearly fuel bill and I still have the principal.

[Ironhorse74]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I can put that $70k for mast , deck gear and sails + the next lot of sails and wire in the bank earning 5%and the interest off of that will go a long way to paying the yearly fuel bill and I still have the principal.

Please let me know what bank you are getting 5% interest at.

Thanks

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Weather prediction being what it is these days powered vessels can do their passage miles when there is no wind or seaway therefore having a calm passage.

Sailing vessels in the same weather pattern have to motor as well and drag an expensive mast and suit of sails through the air.


Novelty wears off after a while imho, especially if you do strike a bit of weather.
Destination is where it's at for most.

This is all true. Besides that, what Canmando didn't mention, but a catamaran power boat addresses the seaworthiness issue of trawlers - a power cat is more or less equal in stability to a good sailboat.

Just one quibble - the magic of making way under sail is not a "novelty"! It's magic indeed, ecstatic, wonderful! Far from "wearing off", on the contrary, it's completely addictive, for most people. The more you do it, the more you want it.

That being said, if for some reason you are immune to this magic, if the destiniation really is the main point for you, then you can certainly have a perfectly good cruising experience in a power boat. Especially a long, narrow-hulled power cat, which must be cheaper to build and operate than a comparable sailboat and just as seaworthy. Or something like Dashew's Wind Horse - long, narrow-beamed, and highly efficient.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse74

Please let me know what bank you are getting 5% interest at.

Thanks

Ubank 5.11%

ING 5%

I have a small amount here accumulating for holiday spending
(in that country only)
DongA Bank 8.98%

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Just one quibble - the magic of making way under sail is not a "novelty"! It's magic indeed, ecstatic, wonderful! Far from "wearing off", on the contrary, it's completely addictive, for most people. The more you do it, the more you want it.

I've been spoilt by speed and comfort.
Anything less is not an option to me, especially if its leaning.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse74

Please let me know what bank you are getting 5% interest at.

Thanks

Cat Man Do is right about the 5% interest on his money in the bank, I get 5.25% PA from ME Bank in AU

Bill
Australia

[Rocketman]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I worked out for my boat that I would be up for about $70k in mast rigging and winches.
Thats probably enough to motor around the world 3x

Every 5 to 7 years years (based on wire and sail longevity of previous cat) I would probably be up for another suit of sails and wire, so another $15 to 20k

I can put that $70k for mast , deck gear and sails + the next lot of sails and wire in the bank earning 5%and the interest off of that will go a long way to paying the yearly fuel bill and I still have the principal.

I am not sure who is spending this much money on rigging and sails every 5-7 years, I know I am not. I spend about $1000.00 on adverage every year maintaining my rigging and sails, but I am not planning a, around the world trip in which case, if I replaced everyting I might spend 20K, and would get at least another 10 - 15 years out of the rigging.

The other point that has not been brought up is the costs involved in repowering a large power boat. I have not priced 2 big diesel engines, labor to remove and reinstall, plus gen set mantainance, or replacement. I would assume these costs to be somewhat compable to replaceing sails and rigging. Of coarse, if you are sitting at the dock because of fuel costs and comfort then these costs are going to be the same regardless of what type of boat you are in.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

I am not sure who is spending this much money on rigging and sails every 5-7 years, I know I am not. I spend about $1000.00 on adverage every year maintaining my rigging and sails,

You have a 40 ft benny not a 50 ft performance cat.
Different boat, different loads

I am going on my observations on my last boat , a 32 ft performance cruiser cat that was sailed on average, 150nm a week every week in a tropical climate, so UV degradation for a start is high.
I had quality sails and fittings on this vessel and after 3 years had to replace the oversized forestay wire as 3 strands had broken.
As a matter or course I replaced the other 2 shrouds while at it.
In the 5th year I had a lightning strike so replaced all wire.
The 5 year old fully battened square top main made from cruise lam held great shape , until it didnt.
About 500nm into the delivery to her new owners it blew almost full width at the first reef point, in my opinion while repairable in the short term it was a bin job.
The Mylar Genoa good for 15 knots was showing major breakdown after 3 years, though we did still use it (patched) until vessel was sold.
The cruislam working jib was still OK after 5 years, but definitely had signs of wear, like the main, and being from the same material, may have gone at any moment..

Observations on wire and sails of other performance cats, that get used as any performance vehicle should would support my 5 year to 7 year replacement .

Naturally if I was building a sailing vessel that simply could not perform (sail at wind-speed and high teens), so no point driving her hard, then I imagine the gear would last longer.
Unfortunately for me that style of sailing vessel holds little interest to me.

The other point that has not been brought up is the costs involved in repowering a large power boat. I have not priced 2 big diesel engines, labor to remove and reinstall, plus gen set mantainance, or replacement.

I have 2 x 65hp diesels, hardly a big motor
I expect based on similar vessels usage, that a 1 litre/nm @ 8 knots will be easily achievable. I would hope for better given the right conditions.

The sailing version of same vessel would have 50hp x 2, so similar cost and maintenance. (plus the cost of big rig and sails)

Genset will be a 2 kva Honda or similar.

[Ironhorse74]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Ubank 5.11%

ING 5%

I have a small amount here accumulating for holiday spending
(in that country only)
DongA Bank 8.98%

I am going to have to figure out whether that is legal for US investors. 10 year treasury here in the US is at 1.47%

My apologies to the moderators for thread drift.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse74

I am going to have to figure out whether that is legal for US investors. 10 year treasury here in the US is at 1.47%
.

I'm sure it is but by the time you pay Australian tax on earnings as a non resident and then pay the US tax on earnings, then any currency conversion rates you will probably be back where you were.