Should I avoid this boat?

[Dave22q]

I would check out the origional surveyer. IMHO two year is too short a time to develop serious hull issues or damage from exausted zinks so I would decide if I trust the survey.

[Cadence]

Get a survey by a certified surveyor. It is only speculation here.

[Shrew]

Consider also logging onto this sites, sister site: https://www.trawlerforum.com/

There are a lot of knowledgeable trawler owners over there.

I would also suggest you consider heavily whether to invest in a wooden boat. Skilled tradesmen are dwindling. Older wooden boats require a massive amount of work. I've heard rumors of some marina's that won't haul large wooden boats.

[Donny Bahama]

Originally Posted by Exctyengr

Hi Donny! I am a bit of a GB aficionado and have a love for wooden boats including wooden GB's. Let me be a bit of a nay sayer to some of the other commenters. I previously owned two cruising wooden boats, a 30 foot sloop and a 42 foot ketch in both cases the hull was not a problem. The maintenance was brightwork and mechanical/electrical (auxiliary engine, heads, replacing electronics, wiring, etc.). So I would not be overly concerned about the fact that your GB has a wooden hull.

Thank you so much for offering an alternate perspective, Exctyengr! My thinking - if we do decide to buy this boat - is that we would haul her out, strip off all the old paint, then have a thorough inspection of the hull (inside and out, removing fasteners and checking for rot wherever it may be hiding) by a surveyor who specializes in wood boats. Armed with a comprehensive repair list, we would make all the necessary repairs then paint the bottom with CopperCoat from just above the waterline on down. I think that those who caution against wood boats don’t consider how awesome and effective CopperCoat is but I am completely sold on it and this would be my plan for whatever boat we buy - wooden or fiberglass - at the first haul out.

That said, there are a few things to concern yourself with:
1. Fuel Tanks: If the tanks are original you can expect them to start leaking and they are very difficult to replace. These guys are fifty years old, black iron, and most shipwrights recommend pulling the engines to get at them. So inspect them carefully and be advised.

YIKES! I’m quite comfortable with all manner of mechanical, electrical, plumbing and carpentry but the last thing I want to be doing is pulling engines. That’s definitely outside my comfort range! Are there no coatings that can be used to repair leaks and/or prevent future problems? I’ve used such coatings on motorcycle fuel tanks but of course, they weren’t diesel tanks. Failing that, what about cutting up the old tanks, removing them in pieces, and replacing them with new ones? Even if I had to do something like removing a manifold, etc. Anything to avoid pulling the engines!

2. Teak Decks: GB had thick teak decks so they can be re-caulked and refinished but if you are missing bungs and water has been allowed to sit on the fastenings you might have rot below in the sub-deck. Inspect these carefully.

From the survey: “The vessels decks are painted timber with a non slip finish per ABYC H-41. Every one foot section was sounded and found solid including the bridge deck. Above average condition.” We actually would have preferred the teak but now I’m less unhappy about it.

3. Rot: Look at the fly bridge where the sides meet the deck, look at the stern corners where sometimes water can be trapped between the bulwark and the deck.
4. Electrical: In the forward head, above the sink on the aft bulkhead, there is a door, open it and take a look at the wiring. If you have a rats nest of wiring, it is a major undertaking to rewire.

Thank you very much for this. I’ll be sure to look carefully at those items when I get the chance to inspect her in mid-July.

Two other points: As has previously been opined, wooden boats need constant maintenance you live in Suharita, Arizona (BTW: I live in Prescott). If you can't give that boat the constant love and attention that that classic deserves and needs, you will simply bear witness to its degradation.

No worries about living far away; we intend to liveabord and would be moving onto her from the moment the transaction is finalized. Side question: are there boatyards that will let you liveabord - or at least look the other way - while she’s on the hard? Finding a temporary place to live while the hull is being restored and the CopperCoat applied - that’s an expense we can ill afford. I do have a plan for this contingency but convincing the wife is NOT going to be easy!

Also, the boat is 50 years old, certainly nearing the end of its design life, so expect to spend a lot of time on "Loving" (fixing and maintaining) the boat.
Good luck and keep us posted.

The survey talks about how sturdy and well-built she is. It further states that it’s fundamentally in very good shape and just needs some TLC to be in above average condition. I don’t mind spending several hours a week on upkeep and repairs (we definitely want to do some remodeling/restoration) but I want to have time left over to enjoy living on her, taking her out to do some fishing and just enjoying semi-retirement. (Learning to play a few musical instruments - starting with piano - is my main retirement goal.) But if all my free time is going to be taken up by repair after repair... if all my current small business owner stress is simply replaced by urgently needed repair after urgently needed repair, then my goal of reducing my stress level and enjoying life will go right out the window! That would be BAD.

In general, I’m resigned (even looking forward) to doing maintenance and repairs. I have the requisite skills for that (if not the stamina - but I’m sure that will come and I’m looking forward to getting into better shape, too). We’re liquidating all our assets to do this and the sum total of those assets isn’t going to be a lot (and borrowing money is not an option for us) - so any boat we buy is going to be a project and that’s OK. I’m just looking for something with “good bones” so that what’s primarily required is elbow grease and TLC. If it’s going to send me into panic mode and urgently needs lots of major repairs, then I will have chosen very poorly.

[Donny Bahama]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

I would check out the origional surveyer. IMHO two year is too short a time to develop serious hull issues or damage from exausted zinks so I would decide if I trust the survey.

Thanks for that. I’m pretty sure I do...

SURVEYOR CREDENTIALS I
include US Navy small craft maintenance / coxwain. Boatswains Mate petty officer. (4yrs). US Coast Guard A courtesy marine examiner ( 8 yrs district 11). Farmers Insurance Group / Zurich agent / marine underwriter (24 yrs retired). Bayliner Meridian yacht sales with factory school on Merc Cruiser Systems, laminating and final assembly ( 3 yrs ) Navtech surveyor training with corrosion certificate US Surveyors association (11 years). Member ABYC, NFPA, US Surveyors Association, National Safe Boating Council, Buc Book, Boat US, Navy Yacht Club, Corsair Yacht Club , American Legion Viet Nam Vet.

[OloteleMtn]

A cheap boat will cost the most....you seem to have your heart set on this boat already, but a wooden boat will likely be more upkeep than you express that you are wanting. lots of good advice already.....^^^listen to the chick!

[Scaramanga F25]

All the time and money you will need to spend on that boat you will never recoup.

[PineyWoodsPete]

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

A cheap boat will cost the most....you seem to have your heart set on this boat already, but a wooden boat will likely be more upkeep than you express that you are wanting. lots of good advice already.....^^^listen to the chick!

I can't imagine "liquidating all...assets" for any live-on, cash-eating project boat, much less a 50 year old wooden one that may not be worth much more when you're finished.

Hopefully it's been a fresh-water boat and hasn't spent much time in Southern warm salt waters with their voracious Toredos...

[Paul J. Nolan]

Almost all who leap from the Golden Gate die, the key word being "almost." One late night a radio DJ was interviewing a rare survivor. He asked, after you let go of the ledge and irreversably committed yourself to your fate, what was the first thought that went through your mind? The answer: "Wrong move!"

A fifty year old wood boat? Just considering it is proof to me you're suicidal. Even Donald Street, himself the owner of a 100 year old boat, wrote that 40 years was about the limit for traditional wooden boat construction, and that includes a complete refastening and refit at the twenty year mark. Like most who ask for advice here, it seems what you really want is reinforcement of your own decision. Well, think about the above anecdote when you reach for your wallet because you will have found your life's work until the fateful day you drop your paintbrush in the dirt, keel over, and cast off for The Big Harbor.

And your estate will have so much trouble unloading that damn vessel that the next starry-eyed, suicidal fellow to come along will tell all that he got it "at a VERY attractive price."

Paul, OWBO*

*One-time wood boat owner. Our slogan: Augo Nevore! (Latin for "Never Again" and said harshly with a raised fist).

[mvweebles]

This is clearly a full-on restoration of a classic with a totally open-checkbook by a very well heeled owner. I could not even afford to produce the video let alone restore the boat. But it gives some idea of what's on the inside of a boat. And you learn terms like "hog" and such. Great 47-minutes of life, and an idea of what a true wooden boat-wright does for a living.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqaSWjtF8PI

BTW - surveyor credentials were fine for a fiberglass boat. Didn't sound like he had any creds for wooden boats.

An older Lat 38 article
https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic...ky-some-arent/

Finally, you may want to subscribe to this channel for techniques on wooden boat repair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox93snKVuaM

Peter

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Donny Bahama

I don’t mind spending several hours a week on upkeep and repairs (we definitely want to do some remodeling/restoration) but I want to have time left over to enjoy living on her, taking her out to do some fishing and just enjoying semi-retirement. (Learning to play a few musical instruments - starting with piano - is my main retirement goal.)

Not lots of space on a boat for much of a piano. Wifey's 88-key board on a portable stand (and with a tiny amp) would have been too much for the saloon in our 42.

-Chris

[Mike Banks]

If your price reflects the cost of slipping, stripping, re-painting (after fixing any osmosis) and all else including engines are fine--go ahead--but the engines and drive train, fuel tank cleaning etc are going to be your biggest expenses in such a powered craft. These can REALLY cost if replacements are required after a little use.

On a brighter note, if this is used as a pleasure craft and has not been used commercially, the engines are probably going to be OK. If it has been dragging nets all its life I would probably leave it alone.

[Mike Banks]

When you put your piano aboard--make sure it is a SHIP piano. They are built differently. I had a Cremer ship's piano. It was smaller but still had a full keyboard, and played beautifully. Sorry I ever sold it.

I would possibly consider en electronic one these days. The good ones are very good.

[Exctyengr]

A couple of additional thoughts based on your responses to my earlier comments:
(1) On the tanks, you might be able to have them inspected and I would certainly do that. The key would be if a PO had installed an inspection plate. A quick look would reveal that.
(2) A few years back, Passagemaker, had an article on wooden GB's titled "Woodies Rule" you might want to research that.
(3) Living aboard on the hard, especially if you are trying to work on the boat would be a real challenge. Your tools and work in progress will interfere with simple living, In addition, you probably will not be able to use the head or any of the water systems which means climbing down ladders and hiking across the hard to the nearest head. Not good for lasting marriages.
(4) A piano on a GB 36? How about a harmonica. GB36's are a bit tight to begin with and the laws of physics remain unchanged.
(5) Get a copy of Jim Trefethen's book "Wooden Boat Renovation" (check out www.abebooks.com, it's $5.11 including shipping) for some real life tips on keeping up an aging wooden boat.
(6) One of the controlling factors on a wooden boat are the fastenings. GB's were well built with bronze screws but they are 50 years old, pull some along the garboard strake and at other locations (with the sellers OK of course) and inspect them with care. You might be looking at refastening, a long, dirty and tedious job but doable.
(7) Personally, I still love wooden boats and have a bit of a reverse snob outlook on the self propelled Clorox bottles that are floating condos - but that's just me.
(8) Any and all wooden boats are works in progress. You will never be done and you will never get your money out of it (but no one ever gets money out of a boat anyway)

Good luck, keep us informed.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

A cheap boat will cost the most....you seem to have your heart set on this boat already, but a wooden boat will likely be more upkeep than you express that you are wanting. lots of good advice already.....^^^listen to the chick!

Yeah... listen to the chick. She knows whereof she speaks! (Ask me about the 35' teak Cheoy Lee I almost bought a couple of years ago...)

Fortunately, when I did go to see her in person, I realised she was sinking (auto-bilge pump went off continuously every 20 minutes) - just too bad her owner didn't know it...

Best of luck, Donny, but the more I read the ongoing posts (fasteners below the waterline weren't pulled...?) the more my take would be that you step away.

Sorry,
LittleWing77