Should Large Power Boats be Banned?

[Robert Tilbury]

I don`t know if this fits here but in Australia the price of electrisity has gone up so much in the last 5 years ,
They say its for the planet ?
But and here is the BUT !

We sell our coal to CHINA , they make there power and burn it anyhow ,, so my question if the coal is being burned to make power why not make the power for Australia insted of sending it away
Last time i looked the sky was world wide no boarders .

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by 2big2small

You’re probably confused by fuel per hour consumption vs fuel per distance. To go from A to B, which is the fuel consumption that ultimately matters regardless of how fast or slow you get there, a planing hull will consume less fuel just at planing speed than just below. Similarly, a modern displacement hull with bulb will consume less fuel just at the right speed that cancels the wakes out than just below that speed. The basic knowledge that “slower is always more efficient” is wrong.

The key word here is "just below" It is true that there is a sweet spot typically about 80% of hull speed that has less drag than say 60-70% of hull speed.

If you go 50% of hull speed, then you are already below the range of significant wave drag, and wetted surface friction is lower than the 80% sweet spot.

So, if ships that can travel 15-20 knots, instead go 5-6 knots, they would consume less fuel. If they slow down to 2 knots, they would use very little fuel. This is also very true for tugboats pulling barge across long distances.

If you think that the most efficient speed for container ships is 20 knots, it's not true. 20 knots may be more efficient than 15 knots for that ship, but then it becomes more efficient again at 12, and more and more efficient as you approach zero.

For a high speed planing boat, if they were instead driven only at 2 knots instead of 30 using a smallest engine with large reduction gear and large propeller, they would too consume far less fuel than any speed with the large engine and small propeller planing or not. But planing hulls are typically not meant to be efficient anyway; and their consumption is high at any speed.

At low speeds, prevailing winds give an even greater advantage, so the the efficiency improvement at low speeds is even greater.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

One hurtle Americans have to get over is that they are 5% of the world's population and they use 20% of the world's energy. It's the muscle car mentality and Boatie is right, Jack up the fuel costs and people will change their ways and conserve more...keep the prices super low and all you'll get is same old, same old.

We quite like our, as you condescendingly call it, muscle car mentality. But my comments to boatman re these vehicles as they are built today were right on the money.

BTW does Canada even build their own brands of automobiles?

[cyan]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Now that's a bit silly unless she had friends she wanted to visit in Seattle. Yes you might go on a waiting list for an MRI in Vancouver but not if it was serious. If you feel you want to get instant service in Vancouver there are several private clinics that will give you next day service for an MRI at much lower rates than you'll ever get South of the border.

Silly, I agree. This was "low-priority", which was actually life-threatening in the end. 18 months seems long but 12 months is not unheard-of. There was a 2009 study that stated:
"The target timeline for low-priority scans varied from two weeks to a year"
Management of MRI Wait Lists in Canada :: Longwoods.com

Good to know there are now private MRI clinics in Canada! (not the case a couple decades back) Do these "queue-jumpers" with money get any shame for dodging the universal system? Seems like everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. It's a tough problem to solve and most governments seem very inefficient at solving tough problems.

Banning large power boats would be quite a challenge for a government. There would always be money solutions around such a ban. You would have the Leo DiCaprio types that would be exempted from the ban so that he could travel around the word burning fuel so that he could tell us not to travel around the world burning fuel.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

I'd probably still smoke if ciggies were $2 vs $20 as well ( I stopped at $1.50)

The nanny state works!

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by sailpower

We quite like our, as you condescendingly call it, muscle car mentality. But my comments to boatman re these vehicles as they are built today were right on the money.

BTW does Canada even build their own brands of automobiles?

Not as far as I know..We are so deep in bed with you guys on automobile manufacturing that it's pretty much all the same. We are also completely self sufficient in oil and have been exporting to your country for many many years but Canada has taken the view of keeping fuel prices high to promote conservation. Right now in my home town we are paying $1.55 a liter and it's going to $1.60 next month so it's way above you guys. By the way we live 5 minutes from the border and I'll admit that when we visit your lovely country, we do it often when we are home we always fill up..so slightly hypocritical on our behalf but hey it saves us a few bucks, lol.

[zboss]

Screw that... ban large powerboats because their owners don’t know how to avoid massive wakes disturbing other boats. Seriously... no wake is no wake. If you can’t get “no wake” at least give it a shot.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by cyan

Silly, I agree. This was "low-priority", which was actually life-threatening in the end. 18 months seems long but 12 months is not unheard-of. There was a 2009 study that stated:
"The target timeline for low-priority scans varied from two weeks to a year"
Management of MRI Wait Lists in Canada :: Longwoods.com

Good to know there are now private MRI clinics in Canada! (not the case a couple decades back) Do these "queue-jumpers" with money get any shame for dodging the universal system? Seems like everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. It's a tough problem to solve and most governments seem very inefficient at solving tough problems.

Banning large power boats would be quite a challenge for a government. There would always be money solutions around such a ban. You would have the Leo DiCaprio types that would be exempted from the ban so that he could travel around the word burning fuel so that he could tell us not to travel around the world burning fuel.

I'm not someone who agrees with banning, I like the free enterprise system but as individuals we dont always make choices that are best for the planet so sometimes I might support a tax on an activity...say smoking for example. Free to do it but it's not cheap. ( I'm a reformed smoker by the way) it's hard on our health care system.
As to your question on queue jumping..well it's like a tax in its own way and I admit to doing exactly that so I freed my spot in the que for someone else when I stepped out of the line. I don't think Canadians really care that much unless they are not getting the attention they feel they deserve. Canada could reduce the waits for non life threatening treatment, it would just cost more. If you have cancer or heart disease or any number of other life threatening issues you'll get good service but if you want a knee or hip operation then your going to wait but the waiting period has been slowly coming down. Some Canadians are better heeled and a few will travel to the USA but places like India are gaining in world wide popularity and have an excellent track record on many specialities, especially bone repairs and they are a third of the costs in the USA.....

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by zboss

Screw that... ban large powerboats because their owners don’t know how to avoid massive wakes disturbing other boats. Seriously... no wake is no wake. If you can’t get “no wake” at least give it a shot.

Showing your ignorance.
Plenty of large motorboats produce little to no wake.
Full displacement - heard of it?

Pic is of 60 ft, 70 tonne, 1150rpm @ 8 knot hull speed using 15lph

Probably as much wake coming off of the dinghy we are towing.

[Lake-Effect]

This thread is going well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k

[Boat Boy]

Yes the sail boat v's stink boat discussion............. From my cruising yacht experience in enclosed waterways there are 2 things that need to happen. Firstly the smaller power boats , say under 40 feet, need either a major design change to minimise the excessive wake they produce which not only causes shore erosion but considerabe distress to yachts and other water users as they are thrown sometimes violently around when hit by the wake and god help the fisherman in their tinnies and kids on their paddle boards All enclosed populated waters need to be made NO WASH zones. It seems the power vessels current design exhibits lots of noise, very little go and at throttle they dig the transom into the water for maximum water turbulence and large wake effect.
Secondly it seems that some power boat owners are totally oblivious to their vessels wash effect on every other boat near and far on the waterway and even if they aware their arrogance and disrespect for other water users generally causes mayhem as they pass at full throttle regardless of the consequences.
I have been thrown around in my cockpit causing injury, been swamped, have had gear damaged from violent boat movement caused by wash up to approx 1 metre hitting me in all directions. In fact there are now some enclosed waterways that I will not enter ever again because of these inconsiderate power boat owners make it such an unpleasant experience.
To be fair for ALL water users, including kayacks, row boats, paddle boards, sail boats to name but a few, their must be a change to vessel design, maximum allowable speed and a major increase in no wake zones. If the power boat brigade want to produce noise and wake, then they can go outside in the ocean and play as much as they wantOk rant over

[SeaSon]

ALL FIBERGLASS BOATS SHOULD BE BANNED.
Yachting should be the preserve only of folks that can afford to keep up wooden boats.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by thruska

Perhaps boaty, you can enlighten me further. The first man on the list of directors is Irish.
Granted bp is just a conglomeration of Standard Oil, but not even then was it only Americans, or USA as you imply. Man , wouldn’t you care to involve the Soviets in this petrol scheme of yours? There’s plenty of blame to go around you know, lol. I think you are wise enough to figure out that the USA is not behind every evil cartel in the world. The UK can bear up her own weight in that realm.

Boatman, please take note also to the fact that your reference to who owns BP.
The post is 5 years old. The second on list of directors is dead since 2015, was chief at BOC which is now owned by Linde of Germany.
Some of the info in the post is as old as 10 years old .
If you want me to believe American entities own BP, you will have to do better than that rubbish. Perhaps a search for who owns American entities would be a good start. But remember Americans are in north and South America.. You might find some rich and shady Argentinians with German ties involved.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Now that's a bit silly unless she had friends she wanted to visit in Seattle. Yes you might go on a waiting list for an MRI in Vancouver but not if it was serious. If you feel you want to get instant service in Vancouver there are several private clinics that will give you next day service for an MRI at much lower rates than you'll ever get South of the border.

Please explain why the two Canadian families I've met on vacation in the USA told me they needed to obtain medical care for chronic diseases in the states?

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

There's 999 other reasons besides CO2 and AGW for not consuming fossil fuels as recklessly as we currently are. Pick any you like.

Of course you must have that list handy for us.
And the list of proven scientific references proving those reasons would follow of course. Right ?