Solarwave 64 as a perfect trawler for Caribbean?

[GaryJones]

Originally Posted by John Holbrook

Canarys to St Martin on a circa 50' catamaran with main and Genoa only say 18 days.

Spending a month crossing the Atlantic is not the same as spending a month cruising the Carribean. Try it and you will see why. No need to replace my wife and no need for my wife to replace me, I won't be buying a solarwave😎

Zero arguments on all counts. I am just saying that it is not the only way to cross the Atlantic and others wouldn't mind the tradeoff.

[John Holbrook]

You can add a 2kw solar array and lithuim batteries to any 45' plus cat for less than 25K and do that. Many are doing just that.

Originally Posted by GaryJones

I also think you can't discount the appeal of not using fuels of any kind, no diesel, no petrol, no propane. The idea that you could live on the hook for months at a time with only the occasional foray to land for fresh food (and of course, alcohol). That has a romantic appeal that tugs at the heart of some (perhaps most sailors in fact), even if perhaps it isn't totally logical.

[John Holbrook]

Gary a big thing in doing longer distances is being comfortable with it. For me reliability and weather are the two big concerns. A cat with a sail rig, two engines and a 800Nm range under power covers the reliabity issues comfortably for me. Next is weather and sailing in the safe season with good weather forecasting is the best you can do. Spending 30 days crossing the Atlantic puts you well outside the range of reliable weather forecasting (circa 14 days) and increases your chances of running into weather problems. Just my thoughts.

Originally Posted by GaryJones

Zero arguments on all counts. I am just saying that it is not the only way to cross the Atlantic and others wouldn't mind the tradeoff.

[GaryJones]

Originally Posted by John Holbrook

Gary a big thing in doing longer distances is being comfortable with it. For me reliability and weather are the two big concerns. A cat with a sail rig, two engines and a 800Nm range under power covers the reliabity issues comfortably for me. Next is weather and sailing in the safe season with good weather forecasting is the best you can do. Spending 30 days crossing the Atlantic puts you well outside the range of reliable weather forecasting (circa 14 days) and increases your chances of running into weather problems. Just my thoughts.

I understand where you are coming from and appreciate what you are trying to say. What worries one sailor is often different to another. Catamaran sailors vs monohull sailors vs power boat sailors all have different concerns and have probably chosen their boat based on minimising their worry and meeting their needs. Obviously coupled with financial restraints.

I would never try and dissuade someone from their choice. I give others credit for knowing what they want and having done the research based on their needs. I don't think you or valhalla are being overly critical of the tech but what you both possibly have to acknowledge is that others have done the math, done the research, and have decided it works for them. I would hope that someone buying this boat would know the 24hr distance is low, the speeds are restricted and all the other negative things you might say about the boat, but they want it anyway -- for whatever reason.

There is nothing wrong with saying that it is not for me because of XYZ. What is offensive is when people say you would be stupid / mad to buy it and then list reasons why it doesn't work for them and / or BS about it not working when it obviously does (within certain criteria).

[barnakiel]

Except that this detail is probably the most prominent feature of the whole thing:

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp..._178517551.jpg

How come they never mention the diesel tankage required to run this genset. Nor do they mention that 25kW of power is not all that much in a 64' cruising cat.

Solar shmolar. Nice boat otherwise.

Cheers,
b.

[GaryJones]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Except that this detail is probably the most prominent feature of the whole thing:

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp..._178517551.jpg

How come they never mention the diesel tankage required to run this genset. Nor do they mention that 25kW of power is not all that much in a 64' cruising cat.

Solar shmolar. Nice boat otherwise.

Cheers,
b.

You know there are two pages to the review, right?
Could you not see the 1000litre tank mentioned on the second page?

They aren't hiding it.

The engines don't care where the power is coming from. If 12Kw gives it 6knts that can be solar, battery or genset.

Expert, schmexpert. Nice comment otherwise.

[barnakiel]

Argghhhhhhh!

YES I did skip the 2nd part. My quick reading skills fail me once again.

Indeed, they are not hiding the tankage info!

6 knots sounds slow in a 64 cat. (no?) 8kts is only 1sqr(lwl).

I must go back and read it again. Is the 6kts flat water no wind or more realistic conditions?

Then again, given the inter island distances and how sunny Caribbean is, the idea makes 100% sense.

schmexpert b. ;-)

[GaryJones]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Argghhhhhhh!

YES I did skip the 2nd part. My quick reading skills fail me once again.

Indeed, they are not hiding the tankage info!

6 knots sounds slow in a 64 cat. (no?) 8kts is only 1sqr(lwl).

I must go back and read it again. Is the 6kts flat water no wind or more realistic conditions?

Then again, given the inter island distances and how sunny Caribbean is, the idea makes 100% sense.

schmexpert b. ;-)

My guess would be 6knts is flat water, very calm conditions given the weight and amount of propulsion. I do think it would be nice to see what it takes to push this boat in less than favourable conditions and if I was genuinely in the market for one I'd like to see it in action.

I am very glad you have a sense of humour and took my previous comment as it was meant, especially considering how much respect I have for you and your knowledge (I might not post much but I have read your comments for a long time).

[John Holbrook]

Originally Posted by GaryJones

... Others have done the math, done the research, and have decided it works for them. I would hope that someone buying this boat would know the 24hr distance is low, the speeds are restricted and all the other negative things you might say about the boat, but they want it anyway -- for whatever reason.

There is nothing wrong with saying that it is not for me because of XYZ. What is offensive is when people say you would be stupid / mad to buy it and then list reasons why it doesn't work for them and / or BS about it not working when it obviously does (within certain criteria).

Fair enough but I think one would be stupid to rely math and research only and not see Solarwaves claim of solar only powered long distance cruising verified by a reputable third party. Not a magazine just repeating solarwaves claims with an eye on solarwaves advertising budget.

I see solarwave have hedged their bets with sail amd motor versions of the same boat. This is not the first "hybrid" boat, check out Greenline, oddly most of their boats are sold without the hybrid option, just straight diesel power.

Im happy for people to buy these boats and fund the R&D. Let's see how solarwaves doing in a year.

[tuffr2]

Can you sail when it is cloudy? What if you get 2 or 3 days of clouds?

[weavis]

Initial sea trials (as yet unverified by our own testers) show that at 6 knots, the two 60kW electric engines consume just 12kW. Increasing the speed to 7 knots pushes this demand up to 19kW, while 8 knots requires 30kW. The maximum speed of this model is limited to 10 knots at 70kW in order to maximise efficiency at its 7-8-knot cruising speed.

These higher speeds do involve drawing additional power from the battery bank but with 50kWh of lithium batteries as standard and a further 50kWh as a €40,000 option, there should be no issue with maintaining these higher speeds for several hours on end. Even with no sun at all, a fully charged bank of batteries should be good for a range of 50-100nm depending on speed.

The saving grace is that as soon as you slow down or drop the hook for lunch, the batteries start to recharge themselves. This, and the safety net of a conventional diesel generator or ‘range extender’ as Silent Yachts like to call it – in this case a 25kW Fisher Panda – finally puts paid to the dreaded range anxiety, which owners of electric cars and boats suffer from.


Read more at Does the Solarwave 64 make solar-powered boating a reality? - Page 2 of 2 - Motor Boat & Yachting

[StuM]

"Even with no sun at all, a fully charged bank of batteries should be good for a range of 50-100nm depending on speed"

50kW of batteries as standard.

That's good for:
4 hours @ 6 knots = 24 NM
2.5 hours @ 7 knots = 17.4NM
1.67 hours @ 8 knots = 13.4NM


How do they come up with "good for 50-100NM", even with the extra $50,000 of additional batteries.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by StuM

"Even with no sun at all, a fully charged bank of batteries should be good for a range of 50-100nm depending on speed"

50kW of batteries as standard.

That's good for:
4 hours @ 6 knots = 24 NM
2.5 hours @ 7 knots = 17.4NM
1.67 hours @ 8 knots = 13.4NM


How do they come up with "good for 50-100NM", even with the extra $50,000 of additional batteries.

They actually state somewhere that the range is about 17 NM... I cant be bothered to find the quote.. at over 2 million its not viable proposition as an electric vessel for most.

[John Holbrook]

And that's without running the fridge, having a hot shower, cup of coffee or a hot lunch.

Safe range from and returning to a marina on a cloudy day allowing for possible thought seas, wind and current 5nm? 10nm with the optional additional Eur40k battery pack.

Of course there is the "range extender" and the efficiency losses of converting rotary montion into electricity and then back again. Not so green.

Originally Posted by StuM

"Even with no sun at all, a fully charged bank of batteries should be good for a range of 50-100nm depending on speed"

50kW of batteries as standard.

That's good for:
4 hours @ 6 knots = 24 NM
2.5 hours @ 7 knots = 17.4NM
1.67 hours @ 8 knots = 13.4NM


How do they come up with "good for 50-100NM", even with the extra $50,000 of additional batteries.

[GaryJones]

So, discounting 2 other forms of electricity generation that it has on board and taking the smallest of its two battery packs, going at its cruise speed rather than slowing down, it has a range of 17NM.

Correct, yes.