ASA 101 Question

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by contrail

Furthermore,taking all four classes on a cat avoids learning all about heeling, what it it, how it feels, what it means and how to deal with it. If you don't learn this, you are nevertheless certified to do something you have never done and may get very unnerved by. I teach 103,104,105, 106 and 114 on a cat, but never 101. It isn't honest to do so. And Montanan, I would suggest that very few cannot distinguish between a keelboat and a cat.

The title of ASA 101 is specific and straightforward as is the description of the goals of the course as written by ASA: "ASA 101, Basic Keelboat Sailing. Able to skipper a sloop-rigged keelboat of approximately 20 to 27 feet in length by day in light to moderate winds (up to 15 knots) and sea conditions. Knowledge of basic sailing terminology, parts and functions, helm commands, basic sail trim, points of sail, buoyage, seamanship and safety including basic navigation rules to avoid collisions and hazards. Auxiliary power operation is not required."

IMHO, ASA 101 is an initial step too far. I strongly advocate to first learn on a small single sailed boat, is the best way to initially learn the basics so as to gain an intimate feeling for the effects of wind strength, gusts, waves and current. With a truly small boat, you [the only person onboard] become the necessary counterweight and trim weight. Then advancing to a modestly larger, yet small two sailed boat [e.g., a 13 to 16 feet sloop], perhaps with the accompaniment of a companion / crewmate [maybe even someone with some experience] or even an instructor provides for understanding of trimming two sails and their interactiveness again whereby one is operating a keelboat but not a heavily weighted keel. And advancing to sail configurations which can be adjusted to size [reefing] and further trim is a yet a further step in the learning curve. Then advancing to mid-size boats, say 20 to 30 feet, like ASA 101, wherein the keel configuration has significant weight such that body weight position is of modest consequence is a solid progression, yet it is at this sizing that one really learns that one does not desire to be knocked down, capsized or turtled and one learns to back off of the aggressiveness. The first time you fall onto a hardpoint on the leeward side of boat because the boat heeled too far to allow you to remain on the highside is when you have pounded into you the need to reef early and often. In my experience when the beam of a boat exceeds your height, the joy and fun of a knockdown or of capsizing tends to diminish exponentially with the measure of the beam, basic physics entails such harsh reality as the acceleration of gravity is 9.8 m/s^2. And inevitably one learns the hard way that there are numerous things on a larger craft that don't do well when considerable water is entrained into the hull by being laid over for a spell. Whereas, turtling a multihull, even a simple HobieCat, now that becomes a serious task to resolve and one that can be beyond even experienced sailors and thus endangering.

I think sailors should desire to have experience and knowledge from sailing a wide variety of hulls and rigging types as each has their own nuances, but the fundamentals remain the same. I learned the greatest amount sailing the simplest boats, e.g., the El Toro, Sailfish and Sunfish. I know a lot of sailors who have lots of experience in a single type of boat [i.e., called a "their boat"] but little to no experience in the wealth of variety of other kinds. There being loads of persons who haven't ventured from monohulls, or Bermuda style, albeit that type has its solid merits. And condomarans also have their merits. As to advancing to completion of the ASA courses, if so inclined, I would recommend pursuing such with a variety of boats, and yes by definition ASA 101 should be a sloop-rigged keelboat of approximately 20 to 27 feet in length. Learning the nuances of other than a permanent keel [keelboat], is a further useful advancement in knowledge and skill.

Then there is the whole matter of initially learning how to utilize auxiliary power, first with a single propeller, then dual engines, then with bow thrusters and then with bow and stern thrusters. And the learning of navigating a course beyond one's sight or in the dark or storms, etc.

And some desire to learn to race, to each their own. I have long since moved away from racing sailboats and regained the pleasure once I departed such.

[belizesailor]

Glad to see this generating some spirited discussion. As a former ASA school owner, it is a pet peeve of mine.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Go Wildcats

What makes learning to sail first on a monohull better than a catamaran?

Originally Posted by StuM

Feedback!

You need to see and feel the effects when wind angle/strength change and when you adjust sail trim. This is much more apparent on a monohull where weather/lee helm and heel give you immediate feedback.

It is much more difficult for a beginner to "read" a catamaran and trim safely/efficiently, especially on a "condomaran"

(Ive been offshore for a few days so slow to respond).

Ditto what Stu said. On a small monohull a student can better sense how the wind and boat interact and learn from that. On a larger catamaran this feedback is almost nil.

Somewhat less the case on a larger mono, but its usually easy to recognize the sailors who learned only on larger boats whether cat or mono.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Montanan

The title of ASA 101 is specific and straightforward as is the description of the goals of the course as written by ASA: "ASA 101, Basic Keelboat Sailing. Able to skipper a sloop-rigged keelboat of approximately 20 to 27 feet in length by day in light to moderate winds (up to 15 knots) and sea conditions. Knowledge of basic sailing terminology, parts and functions, helm commands, basic sail trim, points of sail, buoyage, seamanship and safety including basic navigation rules to avoid collisions and hazards. Auxiliary power operation is not required."



IMHO, ASA 101 is an initial step too far. I strongly advocate to first learn on a small single sailed boat, is the best way to initially learn the basics so as to gain an intimate feeling for the effects of wind strength, gusts, waves and current. With a truly small boat, you [the only person onboard] become the necessary counterweight and trim weight. Then advancing to a modestly larger, yet small two sailed boat [e.g., a 13 to 16 feet sloop], perhaps with the accompaniment of a companion / crewmate [maybe even someone with some experience] or even an instructor provides for understanding of trimming two sails and their interactiveness again whereby one is operating a keelboat but not a heavily weighted keel. And advancing to sail configurations which can be adjusted to size [reefing] and further trim is a yet a further step in the learning curve. Then advancing to mid-size boats, say 20 to 30 feet, like ASA 101, wherein the keel configuration has significant weight such that body weight position is of modest consequence is a solid progression, yet it is at this sizing that one really learns that one does not desire to be knocked down, capsized or turtled and one learns to back off of the aggressiveness. The first time you fall onto a hardpoint on the leeward side of boat because the boat heeled too far to allow you to remain on the highside is when you have pounded into you the need to reef early and often. In my experience when the beam of a boat exceeds your height, the joy and fun of a knockdown or of capsizing tends to diminish exponentially with the measure of the beam, basic physics entails such harsh reality as the acceleration of gravity is 9.8 m/s^2. And inevitably one learns the hard way that there are numerous things on a larger craft that don't do well when considerable water is entrained into the hull by being laid over for a spell. Whereas, turtling a multihull, even a simple HobieCat, now that becomes a serious task to resolve and one that can be beyond even experienced sailors and thus endangering.



I think sailors should desire to have experience and knowledge from sailing a wide variety of hulls and rigging types as each has their own nuances, but the fundamentals remain the same. I learned the greatest amount sailing the simplest boats, e.g., the El Toro, Sailfish and Sunfish. I know a lot of sailors who have lots of experience in a single type of boat [i.e., called a "their boat"] but little to no experience in the wealth of variety of other kinds. There being loads of persons who haven't ventured from monohulls, or Bermuda style, albeit that type has its solid merits. And condomarans also have their merits. As to advancing to completion of the ASA courses, if so inclined, I would recommend pursuing such with a variety of boats, and yes by definition ASA 101 should be a sloop-rigged keelboat of approximately 20 to 27 feet in length. Learning the nuances of other than a permanent keel [keelboat], is a further useful advancement in knowledge and skill.



Then there is the whole matter of initially learning how to utilize auxiliary power, first with a single propeller, then dual engines, then with bow thrusters and then with bow and stern thrusters. And the learning of navigating a course beyond one's sight or in the dark or storms, etc.



And some desire to learn to race, to each their own. I have long since moved away from racing sailboats and regained the pleasure once I departed such.

I agree, dinghy level boats are a great way to start and ASA also has training for this class of boat. However, these classes are normally taught in the summer camp/sailing club/yacht club market.

Ive had many students who were dinghy sailors when they were younger, but no larger boat experience. Many were intimidated by the larger boats. Ive explained to them that sailing a larger boat is actually easier. Their sense of the wind & the boat is usually very good, no instruments needed. Ive also had large boat sailors only, who were dependent upon instruments.

[Flagman101]

Originally Posted by LubDub

Can anyone clarify what the official ASA stance is ? Can ASA 101 legitimately be taught on a multi-hulled boat eg. a catamaran? Reason for asking is that according to the 101 material this is certification is "learning to skipper a 20' - 27' sloop-rigged keelboat by day, in light to moderate winds and sea conditions." and some of the things they test pertain only to a mono hull. Further, on a recent USVI trip a very excellent and experienced skipper told us that learning 101 on a catamaran is not legit. Thanks.

He was right
101 is to be learned on a 20-27 feet sloop keelboat, by day, in light to moderate winds in good weather and sea conditions.

Beware of schools that promise you more then that.
It's a lot of stuff to learn if your are green at sailing

[AKA-None]

Hence the title of the course asa 101 basic keelboating