ASA cert vs USCG

[unlimited]

Hey guys, I consider myself fairly green to sailing but have crewed on monos and cats in bay waters, coastal waters, and Caribbean. I am trying to plan out my sailing & circumnavigation journey and was wondering if I should go for ASA or USCG captains license?

In the future, I would like to be able to, say, captain a chartered cat in the Mediterranean with friends onboard. Maybe even run my own charter operation if I acquire a boat.

Would having a captains license (as opposed to ASA cert) have better insurance rates?

Thanks!

[bensolomon]

Don't know about insurance rates, but if you want to Captain a boat in the mediterranean, you might be better off with an RYA certification such as international certificate of competency.

[boatman61]

Better off with an RYA Coastal Skipper ticket for commercial work in the Med...
That's what got me my Spanish Blue Book (Marinheiro)allowing me to operate in Spain. Same goes for Portugal where my RYA Cert (transposed) allows me to carry punters in Portugal.
In both cases this has to be arranged via a lawyer and signed off by the Harbourmaster where your based.

[requiem]

If you're planning a vacation charter then do US Sailing or ASA through at least their "bareboat" level, and make sure you have a tidy list of your previous crewing/skippering experience handy. The reason is that those let you get an IPC (which for at least the Med countries is sufficiently close to an ICC), and they'll also teach you a bit about sailing.

If you want to run your own charter outfit you'll then need an OUPV or similar, but if you don't have your own boat yet the main hurdle is probably getting sufficient sea time to qualify. So start tracking your time (there is a sea service form you can ask the owners of other boats to sign off) until you reach that point. Getting the license is about passing a test; there's no on-the-water evaluation, which is why I suggest a sailing school first.

My general suggestion on sailing schools is to find a good one and not attempt the zero-to-hero combination courses. How much material you retain is important, and that will be much better if there's sufficient class time to cover it, as well as time between classes to go out and practice it.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Better off with an RYA Coastal Skipper ticket for commercial work in the Med...
That's what got me my Spanish Blue Book (Marinheiro)allowing me to operate in Spain. Same goes for Portugal where my RYA Cert (transposed) allows me to carry punters in Portugal.

I have an off-topic question on this... would it be similar for an American? That is, could an American use a CS or YM cert similarly, or would Spain want to see a USCG ticket because that's what the US would have required, or do they only care that the person has a cert that meets their own requirements? (Which seem much simpler if they don't need a commercial endorsement.)

I assume also that this also assumes one is already permitted to work in Med countries in terms of visa restrictions, etc?

[boatman61]

Pre-Brexit no problem for me..
Post Brexit I'm not sure as today UK licences for the road are hitting all kinds of blocks... https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...brexit-impasse

As an American you may be fine.. Biden's making folk happy with his anti UK stance..

Personally I'm fine as I saw this coming long ago and began my Portuguese residency process in 2009 but my UK licence is no longer any good so I sold my m'bike rather than gamble on not being stopped.
Now have my eye on an electric 250w motor scooter that is licence free.. only 45-70km range but ample for what I need locally.. train or coach (very cheap) for further afield.

[Uricanejack]

If you just want to learn how to sail your own recreational boat ASA is just fine and dandy all you will need. It’s not an official license or certificate.
Your state may have specific state regulations for boat operators which will be much easier. and may be included in a local sailing course.

If you want to charter. A boat ASA should be acceptable by most operations in most locations. The ICC is European most jurisdictions will accept ASA as equivalent. Last I heard US doesn’t issue ICC not having signed the UN thing on it.

If you want run a chartered boat, you will require a qualification for the type area.
Which is a USGD certificate, you start with the 6 pack.
Known as 6 pack, because it allows you to take up to 6 passengers.
It’s not a hard standard.
But you will need the qualifying time plus pas the exam. There are higher certificate for bigger vessels and more passenger.

Being an American I would advise an Americans certificate is a better for you.
It will be easier to explain if trying to get an equivalent certificate for another jurisdiction.

Working as a Charter boat Skipper or captain if you prefer is relatively simple for you if you are on an American Register Boat and Hold an American certificate.
You can pretty much operate anywhere provided your certificate is valid.
Eg you couldn’t use an inland waters certificate offshore,

As an American you can start a charter in US sail into Canadian waters and change charter provided you cross back into US before changing again.
So no problem for a voyage within US or an international voyage.

The problem will be most jurisdictions will not let you operate a charter in thier domestic waters. Unless you have the domestic flag vessel, a domestic certificate valid for the vessel and voyage and the right to work there. (Local green Card)

The EEC is a bit more complicated, I don’t know the answer to this today. At one time Operation between two different EU countries would be an international voyage, and a US citizen on a US register boat with a valid US Certificate. Could run a legal charter between two countries.
The EU have changed their regs and this may not be the case. I don’t know.

I used to be able to work anywhere in the EU, because I am entitled to a british passport. And have a British Certificate.
Since Brexit, I don’t know probably not. The UK still ok, A Uk boat on an international voyage I’m good to go.
But within EU I have my doubts.

As an American you may be able to qualify for citizenship in a EU country if you have a parent or possibly even a Grandparent from an EU country.
Then getting an EU certificate might be worthwhile.

The RYA is very well marketed, well recognized, and probably a lot easier to get than an equivalent US certificate. (Proof of Seatime, not syllabus)
Without dual nationality, your better off with a USCG.

Many large private yachts are flagged in funny little tin pot islands ect I’d never heard of as flags of convenience.
Many are current or ex British territories, other are former US dependency. Most will issue a certificate of equivalence to a US or British Cert or may even accept them.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by unlimited

Hey guys, I consider myself fairly green to sailing but have crewed on monos and cats in bay waters, coastal waters, and Caribbean. I am trying to plan out my sailing & circumnavigation journey and was wondering if I should go for ASA or USCG captains license?

The ASA certifications and USCG master are as different as chalk and cheese. In each case there are many options.


The ASA certifications (https://asa.com/certifications/) are recreational in nature. Others can comment on their value educationally and as a credential as I just don't know. Generally they are for people learning and are awarded based on completion of coursework including both classroom and on-the-water components.



The USCG master requires 360 days of documented deck experience plus a background check, medical exam, drug screen, and several exams. This is out of reach for most people unless they have owned a boat for several years at some point in the past, have documents that show that, and can reconstruct a reasonable record of their experience (good-faith recollection from memory is accepted). There are various versions of this: OUPV, 25 ton inland/rivers, great lakes, near coastal, offshore. Near coastal and offshore require 720 days of experience with most of it having to be coastal or offshore. There's a sailing endorsement that requires 360 days of experience on a sailing vessel. You get the picture.


Maybe you knew that, if so, sorry.



Above 25 tons really the only practical way to get licensed is to work aboard a larger commercial vessel in some capacity on deck for a period of time. That will get you up to 400 tons pretty easily, which is a big boat. Anything beyond that requires escalating coursework and experience requirements.



I've been on boats all my life and can only document around 180 days of deck time because most of my early experience was with other people's boats. There is no way to come up with documentation now because the boats are long gone and in many cases the owners are too. If you think you will want a USCG ticket in future you should be getting the owners of the boats you're crewing on to provide letters.

Would having a captains license (as opposed to ASA cert) have better insurance rates?

The answer I've received in the past is that insurance companies usually don't care much. If they ask at all (mine doesn't), they really want a sailing resume that shows that you have recent experience that is relevant for whatever boat and itinerary you have in mind. Where people run into problems is when they buy a large boat (>40') with no relevant experience beyond a couple of weeklong charters.

Maybe even run my own charter operation if I acquire a boat.

For a US citizen, hard to do outside the USA and impossible in many places. In the USA you need at least an OUPV and there are various other compliance requirements.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

I got my International Proficiency Certificate from ASA (completed the three classes up through ASA104) so that I could captain a charter boat for a group in the Med. In retrospect, I probably should have gotten a USCG 6-Pack or 100 ton Masters license. It would have been cheaper than ASA, but it does require 360 days of on the water experience, which I have.

I mainly did ASA because the course schedule to train for the USCG license didn't fit my schedule, i.e., I couldn't have completed it in time for the cruise in the Med. If I had started earlier I could have found a course. The ASA courses are good but are dependent on the quality / knowledge of the instructor (my ASA104 instructor was great). I think you'll learn more in the USCG courses, but not all of it is relevant to sailing. I have heard really good things about RYA course, but those are less available in the US. If you are new to sailing, ASA may make more sense.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

I missed the OP's question about possibly running a charter. My brother-in-law ran a dive operation in the USVI, and both he and his wife had to get USCG 6-Pack licenses to do that. The only thing the ASA IPC buys you is a credential to captain a charter boat you are leasing, and the only place where they are likely to ask to see it is in the Med or in French overseas territories.

[sailcrazy]

From a different point of view, we sailed our own boat in the eastern/central Medd, and quickly discovered I needed some sort of "Certificate" to check in. I was USCG-registered/documented, with US passports, but once I got the ASA "Certificate" check-in was a snap. But it required that "Certificate".

[Stewie12]

Definitely go for the RYA course.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by unlimited

Would having a captains license (as opposed to ASA cert) have better insurance rates?

Depends, but...

It takes many days at sea and underway (4-hour days) to qualify for the USCG credential...

See here for details: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/national_maritime_center/

In my case, insurance companies said I had already maxed out their "experience" discounts by the time I got the MMC.

-Chris

[bkrizmanic]

The ASA with an international certificate (ASA 104) will allow you to charter in the Med, asking with your restricted radio license. They don't recognize the US Coast guard license as highly. from personal experience,I have both and they could of cared less about the MMC

[jmschmidt]

Anyone completing the ASA, RYM, etc. with only bare bones experience may be able to charter from one of the big charter operators, even in the Med. This is because the big companies can spread their insurance exposure over their entire fleet, not just a single privately owned boat.

If you are a low timer your insurability for recreational use of your own boat will require not only some form of training but a significant amount of certifiable experience.

Chartering (with or without a hired skipper), crewing, racing just hanging out on other peoples' boats are the best ways to acquire the experience.

The two licenses offered by the US Coast Guard are OUPV (the 6-Pack, no foreign voyages) and the Master. The 6-Pack requires 360 sea days of certified experience, and the Master requires 720 sea days of certified experience. Both require written exams. Either combined with any the well-known training programs should work worldwide and with your insurance company.

I had over 1,000 sea days of certified time when I applied for my 50-ton master's ticket
along with 40 years of running every kind of boat there is on the Columbia River and the Pacific Ocean. I've never had any formal training except for the USCG written exam. Even before I got the USCG the ticket no charter company from Australia to the Caribbean ever turned me down.