1992 Four Winns 285 Express

[drumdad]

Greetings all,

I have a 1992 Four Winns 285 Express cruiser. I have two questions:
1) where is the seacock located for the toilet fresh water inlet?
2) I have “toilet waste” leaking into my forward bilge compartment. I cannot see where it’s coming in from as all the lines are hidden under the floor. And also, should the forward bilge not drain back into the main bilge?

Thanks everyone
JT

[ranger58sb]

1) What kind (brand/model) of freshwater toilet? Electric, vacuum, or manual flush? With an electric flush model, there'll likely be a solenoid in the system, activated by a combination of toilet breaker and freshwater breaker on your DC panel. Not sure about the other options...

2) Maybe, maybe not. If there's a bilge pump in the forward area, too, it might be the builder has separated those compartments. OTOH, if you can find a limber hole connecting the two compartments, then yes, maybe.

-Chris

[Nicholson58]

If you have all original equipment on board the source could be anywhere. I know it’s not a fun project. Could you drag in new hose while pulling out the old? I have replaced ours with Raritan Saniflex. Very high flex hose capable of tight radius bends. Old hoses become permeable or crack.

I agree there should be a valve at the through-hull and it should be within reach. Our discharge goes over a high loop with a vacuum breaker anti-siphon device. If you have one of these it could be open or have failed. This would let stuff out.

We have only one bilge. All of the boxes defined by structure are connected by limber holes.

If the head is the culprit I think you would easily find it.

[drumdad]

Thanks Chris!

It’s a Jabsco toilet. Freshwater system with a manual pump handle. I need to replace the handle as it has become quite stiff and squeaking. I’ve tried lubricating it twice already. If I leave water in the bowl it will gradually empty on its own without pumping the handle. This makes me think I’ve got a leak or a bad seal somewhere. Thanks for your reply. Greatly appreciated

[drumdad]

Hey thanks for your reply! That’s a great idea about replacing the hoses. I’ll definitely look into that. The only place I haven’t ripped apart yet is the cabinet under the bathroom sink. I’m hoping that will provide some answers. Or at least give me a better visual of some of the pipes. And as for the water inlet for the toilet, You’d think the seacock for the toilet would be more accessible since they have to open and close it with winterizing and spring commission...no?

[peghall]

Originally Posted by drumdad

t’s a Jabsco toilet. Freshwater system with a manual pump handle. I need to replace the handle as it has become quite stiff and squeaking. I’ve tried lubricating it twice already. If I leave water in the bowl it will gradually empty on its own without pumping the handle. This makes me think I’ve got a leak or a bad seal somewhere. Thanks for your reply. Greatly appreciated

1. Manual toilets are designed to pull in "raw" water (the lake, river or sea water the boat is sitting in) and should never be connected to the onboard fresh water plumbing....the flush water intake line should be connected to a below-waterline thru-hull...pumping in the "wet mode" pull flush water into the bowl. You'll find schematics in the owners manual for your toilet Jabsco Manual Twist & Lock owners manual

2. You don't need to replace the handle, you need to learn how to lubricate your toilet...and flushing about a tablespoon-no more than two 'cuz any more will just wash out with the first flush--every couple of weeks is the easiest way to do that.

3. If the bowl not holding water is the only reason you think you have a leak, you don't have a leak. Your toilet isn't designed to hold water in the bowl. It will when the joker valve (see part #33 in the exploded drawing on the first page of the owners manual) is new, but as it becomes worn with use water seeps out faster and faster.


Fwiw, I've written a book (see link in my signature below) that others reading this will agree will be a LOT of help to you. The title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of equipment and systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is! And I'm always glad to answer any questions it doesn't.


--Peggie

[drumdad]

Wow Peggie! That’s some great info! Thank you. My main reason for thinking I have a leak somewhere is the brown stinky water in my forward bilge area (see pic in original post). I just kinda thought that the water emptying from the bowl supported that idea. I will continue to search for a leak in the lines somewhere.
I’m familiar with how the toilet is SUPPOSED to work, however, ours does not draw freshwater in. Which is why I’m trying to find the thruhull and the seacock to make sure it’s open. Is it possible that the flush pump handle gaskets are shot and it’s not providing a good seal?? It is over 30 years old...
You mention lubricating the toilet properly and flushing a tablespoon or two but you didn’t say what exactly...can you elaborate on this? And I’d love to check out your book but I couldn’t see the link you mentioned. It sounds like it would be something that I should read!!

James

[peghall]

Hi James...

My main reason for thinking I have a leak somewhere is the brown stinky water in my forward bilge area (see pic in original post)


It's highly possible to have dirty brown water in a bilge without any leaks..showers, ice boxes, air conditioning condensate, plain ol' humidity condensation and a bunch of other sources that drain into the bilge instead into a sump and a bunch of other things can create a wet dirty bilge that turns into a primordial soup that can make a whole boat smell like a swamp or even a sewer.

I’m familiar with how the toilet is SUPPOSED to work, however, ours does not draw freshwater in. Which is why I’m trying to find the thruhull and the seacock to make sure it’s open.

Trace toilet intake line from the back of the pump to find the other end of it. It's VERY important that you do whatever it takes to find the thru-hull 'cuz if it that hose connection ever fails, you may not be able to find it to close the seacock before your boat sinks.


Is it possible that the flush pump handle gaskets are shot and it’s not providing a good seal?? It is over 30 years old...

There's never been a Jabsco manual toilet PUMP that's lasted 30 years unless it wasn't used. The base and the bowl, seat and lid may be that old, but the pump has been replaced at least half a dozen times by now, and that's a conservative estimate. But to answer your question...If the boat sat for several years before you bought it, yes, the seals and o-rings could have dried out, but if they have, it's the TOILET that would be leaking, not the hoses in the bilge.

You mention lubricating the toilet properly and flushing a tablespoon or two but you didn’t say what exactly...can you elaborate on this?


Sorry...Use plain ol' veggie oil..the cheapest works as well as brand names. Just pour a tblsp or two into the bowl and flush the toilet. It washes out pretty quickly so plan to do this every 2-3 weeks unless you're not using the boat.



And I’d love to check out your book but I couldn’t see the link you mentioned. It sounds like it would be something that I should read!!

Just click on the title ("Get Rid of Boat Odors") in my signature at the bottom of all my posts..the link is embedded in it.


It just occurred to me that we've only been dealing with your toilet, but you almost certainly have a holding tank that also requires maintenance, so you don't want to skip over those chapters in my book.



--Peggie

[drumdad]

Thank you so much. I’ll definitely be tracking the lines to see where they go. I’ll try the veggie oil too! And yes, I actually have a black water and a grey water tank on this boat. Best I can tell so far is that bathroom sink and shower drain go into grey water tank. Kitchen sink is pumped overboard. And black water is...you know.

Thanks again

[ranger58sb]

What Peggie says!

Originally Posted by drumdad

I’m familiar with how the toilet is SUPPOSED to work, however, ours does not draw freshwater in. Which is why I’m trying to find the thruhull and the seacock to make sure it’s open.

Let's check your definition of "fresh." Just in case. If you're drawing water from outside the boat, in saltwater or freshewater lake, doesn't matter... that's sea water or raw water. Not freshewater.

Originally Posted by drumdad

Thank you so much. I’ll definitely be tracking the lines to see where they go. I’ll try the veggie oil too! And yes, I actually have a black water and a grey water tank on this boat. Best I can tell so far is that bathroom sink and shower drain go into grey water tank. Kitchen sink is pumped overboard. And black water is...you know.

That "grey water tank" is likely no more than a temporary sump; water enters, water gets pumped overboard.

If it's working. Some of the nastiest bilgre crud can come from overflowing shower sumps, and some of the nastiest odors can come from goop buit-up in the sumps. And sometimes that's mistaken for blackwater in bilges or "head odor" in boats. IOW, sumps need periodic cleaning.

See Peggie's book.

-Chris