Air in Autopilot System

[DeepFrz]

Please let us know what you think the problem was.

[Charlie]

LPL:
I have the same WH System. It came with a plastic resevoir (sp>) like yours. I was able to get it to bleed once then it stopped working and air got into the system. I can't seem to get it out. After the Baja Bash I inspected the system and there was a little bit of oil coming out from the threads of some of the fittings. It is my theory that teflon paste is not a strong enough sealant to hold the hydraulic pressures; You bleed it and during the reversing cycles air is drawn in and oil is let out. I tightened everything very tight and had no leaks for a few hundred miles but then I had trace leaks. On my list of things to do is to install the used Hynautic res that I bought and to redo all the threads with Permatex or something other stronger thread sealer.

PS I installed this myself so I became intimate with the system and talked with Will Hamm a number of times.

[s/v Jedi]

Use this stuff: http://permatex.com/products/Automot...ic_Sealant.htm

ciao!
Nick.

[sailingaway221]

For air to get into the system something is leaking... sooner than later if you don't work out what it is, you will be bleeding it again....

[LPL]

Charlie,

I had 2 different hydraulic guys tell me that sealants should not be used on these compression fittings---even though Teleflex tells you to do so. I don't know who's right.

DeepFrz

The last thing I did, was to take the cylinder out again, change the bleed tees (earlier I only changed the nipples). I also took the fitting off the top of the pump which is attached to the reservoir, + changed the O ring. Obviously I cleaned all the guck out of the threads, then probably overtightened everything in the system.

We did waste a lot of time trying to bleed with the wrong tee open. I have a sheet from Teleflex that says "in general, open the bleed tee on the side where the cylinder is protracted". This wasn't logical to me, so we tried every which way, but we did spend a significant amount of time trying that method.

After resetting the fitting on top of the pump and changing the bleed tees it was quite easy to bleed.

Now that I know how fast it can work, I will give up a lot sooner in the future if it's not working.

Paul

[Charlie]

Paul:

I changed to hydraulic hose instead of copper pipe so I don't have compression fittings. Have you looked at the thread I started on sealant for hydraulics? http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ler-55991.html At the end GordMay included a PDF file on the theory of thread sealer. It is worth reading. My take on it would be that if there is a problem with any of the compression fittings the thread sealer would help to solve the problem. I can't see a problem with using thread sealer on compression fittings b/c it is a sealer and a lubricant. What would the problem with that be? (This is an actual question not rheorical)

[LPL]

Charlie,

Thanks for the heads up on Gord Mays link. The Permatex as Nick suggested sounds like the right stuff.

I did not ask either of the hydraulic shops about it. They both just shook their head and told me I shouldn't use a sealer (the first guy when I took the cylinder in, the 2ND guy when I tried to get a replacement fitting to the top of the pump and they saw the sealer in the threads--a different shop).

I did buy a seal kit so if there is a next time, I will reseal the cylinder myself. I actually took it to a shop to save time by not waiting for shipping...

The shop did say the cylinder needed new seals, but who knows. My system was originally installed with ATF. Will says that's no problem, just harder to steer. Teleflex says ATF will ruin the seals, but of course they want you to buy their oil at $20 a quart. I tried finding the Texaco 15 stuff with no luck (mind you I'm on foot or a loaner bike) and ended up using Ultraflex, which I am told is from the same barrel as Starflex but a few bucks cheaper. I will say the wheel moves a lot easier in manual mode now.

Paul

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by LPL

Teleflex says ATF will ruin the seals, but of course they want you to buy their oil at $20 a quart.

The teleflex/hynautics reservoir used, is it the same as this one?



This says use water and glycol

[Charlie]

Paul:
I used hydraulic oil for a tractor. It was a lot cheaper like $10 a gallon It works well. I am going to redo mine with the permatex. I can't see it hurting anything and it could help.

Cat Man do the res is just like that only smaller. Glycol would be really cheap.

[dsiddens]

LPL,
This reply to your thread is too late I'm sure, but I want to contribute my experience with bleeding the air out of my W-H pilot. In my case the biggest advance came by compartmentalizing the sump bucket for the two clear bleed hoses. This was done by using a beer can modified with a pair of scissors. The can is submerged in fluid in the bucket. One hose is in the can, the other hose is in just the bucket. Both hoses submerged in fluid. The beer can acts to force the air bubbles up before being re-taken upwards by which ever hose is in suction mode. Observation reveals the original positioning of the hoses being too close to each other and the suction hose retaking some of the very small bubbles.

A second thing I've learned is that the pressurizing of the Reservalve can quickly result in the intake inside the Reservalve sucking air. During the inital opening of the bleed valves the pressure drives the fluid out of the Reservalve and if the fluid level is not closely watched, air suction will result. My solution is to use the Reservalve pressure to get the fluid up to the cylinder, then open the Reservalve fill plug, refill and reseal, but not repressureize. For the rest of the bleeding cycle the movement of the piston in the cylinder or the pump will move the fluid. It is this remainder of the bleeding cycle that takes place with the compartmentalized bleed bucket/beer can.

The last thing: I'd made my 3/8" copper tubing flares with an inexpensive flare tool from a big box plumbing section. After fussing over leaking flare fittings I noticed that the flares made with this tool were lopsided. I checked the holes of the flare tool with a small square and piece of copper pipe and found them to be off axis. I went to the expense of buying a "Professional Eastman Brake Flaring Tool" which gave me great flares and ended the leaking. I made single flares. I'd also ordered a product called "Flaretite". A card of maybe 10 little cone shaped pieces of metal with some kind of Loctite compound on both sides. The idea is to place a Flaretite between the mating surfaces, then the cone will deform and the loctite will fill any spaces. Reportedly able to be reused. I did not need them after the Eastman tool; they are now part of my spares.

Doug on SV Drakus