Best water heating option on cat with outboard?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by smj

Did I say prohibited? No.
How does a propane water heater company prohibit use on a boat? Do they send the propane water heater police after you? The statement they’re making is to relieve them of any liability Incase of an accident, I don’t think they have the authority to prohibit how you use their product after you purchase it.
If you feel uneasy with the use of a propane water heater on a boat then don’t install one on your boat?

https://sunpacificsolar.net/marine-s...theyre-unique/

"Prohibited" was the word used in the manual of the unit I posted a excerpt of. I would think that means they accept no legal responsibility for explosions.

Many of these units do not operate properly at angles of heel and may seize in the open fuel position that is why they should not be used on boats. But I guess you know better than the people that designed the units.

[smj]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

"Prohibited" was the word used in the manual of the unit I posted a excerpt of. I would think that means they accept no legal responsibility for explosions.

Many of these units do not operate properly at angles of heel and may seize in the open fuel position that is why they should not be used on boats. But I guess you know better than the people that designed the units.

My boat doesn’t heel, it’s a catamaran!
Out of the 11 catamarans that we’ve owned 7 came with factory installed propane on demand water heaters. We changed out a couple of those units and installed 1 in a boat that we did a fit out on. 30 years later and no problems.
What I find funny about the Truma is they’re produced for trailers/rv’s but prohibited in boats. If it’s because they can’t handle being on an angle maybe it’s time ABYC got with the times and gave them the thumbs up on catamarans?
We also have no propane solenoid…….

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by smj

What I find funny about the Truma is they’re produced for trailers/rv’s but prohibited in boats.

What is the max angle of heel of an RV/Trailer ?

Perhaps you should call Truma and offer your engineering expertise and lobbying skills.

[smj]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

What is the max angle of heel of an RV/Trailer ?

Perhaps you should call Truma and offer your engineering expertise and lobbying skills.

Stick with your ABYC, you’ll be ok

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

What is the max angle of heel of an RV/Trailer ?

Perhaps you should call Truma and offer your engineering expertise and lobbying skills.

It's less the angle of heel, it's predominantly that trucks and RV vent below, while anything on a boat can collect in bilges an accumulate.

But, I agree it's bizarre that on demand Propane heaters are used wildly in NZ, Australia and the US while in Europe they make a fuss about it.

There are some which have a burning chamber which is completely sealed from the inside of the boat and take vent and exhaust through deck fittings.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by smj

Stick with your ABYC, you’ll be ok

I concede, you clearly know more than the people who design the units.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Franziska

It's less the angle of heel, it's predominantly that trucks and RV vent below, while anything on a boat can collect in bilges an accumulate.

But, I agree it's bizarre that on demand Propane heaters are used wildly in NZ, Australia and the US while in Europe they make a fuss about it.

There are some which have a burning chamber which is completely sealed from the inside of the boat and take vent and exhaust through deck fittings.

Yeah, kinda like buying an electrical outlet that says do not insert tongue.
There will always be some who .... disagree

[smj]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I concede, you clearly know more than the people who design the units.

Yet 7 out of 10 production catamarans that I’ve owned came with factory installed propane on demand water heaters at the time of build, including your fine Canadian built PDQ catamarans.
Guess I’m not a sheep that just follows the flock.
In edit: my mistake, it was 8 out of 10

[smj]

Originally Posted by Franziska

It's less the angle of heel, it's predominantly that trucks and RV vent below, while anything on a boat can collect in bilges an accumulate.

But, I agree it's bizarre that on demand Propane heaters are used wildly in NZ, Australia and the US while in Europe they make a fuss about it.

There are some which have a burning chamber which is completely sealed from the inside of the boat and take vent and exhaust through deck fittings.

They also make a fuss about it in the US.
I’ll be the first to admit that an improperly installed or used propane on demand water heater can be dangerous, but one that’s well thought out? Not really.
Let’s face it, if it were up to the insurance company’s they would be much happier to insure our boats as long as we never started the engines plugged in shore power or untied the dock lines.

[Dirk01]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

The manual for that unit says "For outdoor use only".
Install that unit in a boat and it's likely insurance will be void.
or when the surveyor finds it, insurance will demand removal.

Just take a look at the warnings. How will you keep it away from all combustable material at a minimum of 1.000mm or 3feet on all sides on a boat?

Cheers
Dirk

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

"Prohibited" was the word used in the manual of the unit I posted a excerpt of. I would think that means they accept no legal responsibility for explosions.

Many of these units do not operate properly at angles of heel and may seize in the open fuel position that is why they should not be used on boats. But I guess you know better than the people that designed the units.

Could you tell us which tankless water heaters do not operate properly at angles of heel?

Oh never mind, I know that you won't want to discuss this. Your mode is to make bald faced statements then refuse to discuss or defend them.

But for the other cruisers I can talk about real world experience.

I have been using these for close to 40 years, and I have had several from ancient Paloma's to the modern ones with several, redundant, electronic safety features. I am not sure about the oldest units which used a pilot light because I just can't remember that far back, but as I can recall, and I am positive about all of the more recent examples: they all have worked perfectly at any reasonable angle of heel. All of the ones I am familiar with have solenoid gas shut off valves operated by temperature sensors (multiple). I have removed some of these solenoid valves and it does not seem feasible that they would fail to operate when heeled. I think your claim is a scare tactic and I wish you would substantiate it.

The manufacturers post "Do Not Use on Boats" not because they don't trust their units, but because any propane gas is dangerous on a boat and they don't want to have a liability for fires or explosions. That is a concern of many people, but there are those who are not in fear of propane. For them one of these devices is an efficient and useful solution.

In my opinion, a well installed gas appliance, including a tankless propane water heater is safe, safer than a propane stove, and installation is simple enough that it can be DIY.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by wingssail

In my opinion, a well installed gas appliance, including a tankless propane water heater is safe, safer than a propane stove, and installation is simple enough that it can be DIY.

Well the uneducated may put faith in your "opinion" I'd prefer to put my faith in the people who designed the units and heed their warnings.

I have never seen one of these but they claim to be designed for marine use and meet ABCY Standards.
https://precisiontemp.com/wp-content...OM-2-20rev.pdf

[smj]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Well the uneducated may put faith in your "opinion" I'd prefer to put my faith in the people who designed the units and heed their warnings.

I have never seen one of these but they claim to be designed for marine use and meet ABCY Standards.
https://precisiontemp.com/wp-content...OM-2-20rev.pdf

Your right, it doesn’t take an education to figure out that a propane on demand water heater can be safely installed and used on a boat, it takes common sense, sadly something that many highly educated people lack.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Well the uneducated may put faith in your "opinion" I'd prefer to put my faith in the people who designed the units and heed their warnings.

I have never seen one of these but they claim to be designed for marine use and meet ABCY Standards.
https://precisiontemp.com/wp-content...OM-2-20rev.pdf

I'm not asking for anyone to put faith in my opinions, just to look at it and think for themselves.

[Cynara]

This is like arguing if you drink battery liquid. Just tell anyone that goes sailing with you.