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PyotrBee · 06-05-2016, 10:17

Doing major work on a 37' cat. Bilge pumps need to be replaced.

My plan is to get 2 small pumps 400gph or so and put in the small well provided for bilge pumps and then put in larger pumps (2000gph) with electronic switches at the lowest point in the hull (most larger pumps wont fit in the well unless I get one with integrated switches).

My thinking is that the general use will use the smaller pumps and save the larger pumps, while also preventing backflow, and finally redundancy.

Rule used to be king, but the number of reviews about their quality control problems on various forums, westmarine customer comments and Amzon comments is enough to make me never ever want to buy a Rule. It seems they have move much of their manufacturing to Mexico and some other places and their failure rate is staggering.

Sureflo seems to be the only generally safe brand to go with now?

So in short looking for:
2 x 2000gph
2 x electronic switches

1 x ~400gph automatic pump (one of our existing pumps still works, and while its old it will have a 2000gph backup).

Any suggestions on which models and brands?

Cheechako · 06-05-2016, 10:26

it's been a few years since I bought any but the Rule 1500 with built in switches worked well at that time. I do prefer the "Junior" or "senior" switches though.
For the small pumps, the water backflows after pumping and you always have some water in the sump with a normal pump. You can avoid this with a pump that is not in the well but sucks from the well. That way you have a dry bilge. If you even care. jabsco diaphragm pump etc... unfortunately these pumps are quite expensive and not that durable either.
http://www.starmarinedepot.com/jabsc..._G3RoCawvw_wcB

zeehag · 06-05-2016, 10:43

i am using rule because i can find em down here. i use 2 2000 gph pumps. forget the light duty ones . whenye want a pump you want a PUMP,not a drizzle too light for the job.
one has automatic switch i check frequently,and keep clean from oils and greases and stuff that interferes with function. the one under my engine is a 2000 gph breaker dependent manual. i am planning installing a heavy use and duty and large outflow whale gusher manual hand pump in cockpit.
donot worry about backflow--is negligible, as the only backflow you will get is that which is in hoses when being pumped out. not bludi much.
UNLESS your hose is defective--cracked or holed, then it will not pump outboard but back into boat.
btdt on opb.
not fun.

PyotrBee · 06-05-2016, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

it's been a few years since I bought any but the Rule 1500 with built in switches worked well at that time. I do prefer the "Junior" or "senior" switches though.
For the small pumps, the water backflows after pumping and you always have some water in the sump with a normal pump. You can avoid this with a pump that is not in the well but sucks from the well. That way you have a dry bilge. If you even care. jabsco diaphragm pump etc... unfortunately these pumps are quite expensive and not that durable either.
Jabsco 36600 Diaphragm Bilge Pump-36600 Jabsco - Star Marine Depot

Check the comments here:
http://www.amazon.com/Rule-25D-Subme...r&pageNumber=1

And the sad thing is - no matter what site you check, WestMarine, Amazon, etc.. and no matter what Rule pump you pick there are TONS of comments about how bad they are now. Even the $250+ Rule pumps have a huge failure rate.

Lepke · 06-05-2016, 11:28

If you look closely at the pumps for sale, you may see the only difference between many of them is the decal on the side.
I went back to Lovett. They are more expensive, but I never had one fail or wear out.

**skipmac** · 06-05-2016, 11:28

I second the recommendation by Cheechako. I have essentially the same setup; a Jabsco diaphragm pump for the daily dry the bilge work but a pair of Rule 4000s for emergencies.

I am very aware of the poor ratings for the new Rule pumps but I think a lot of the problems lie with the built in automatic switches. Also the failures seem to be for pumps that are the primary, day to day pumps.

I have a bilge alarm and just use a manual switch for the emergency pumps. Also the Rules are set in a high spot in the bilge so stay dry and are (hopefully) never used so I expect they will be fine as emergency pumps.

PyotrBee · 06-05-2016, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipmac

I second the recommendation by Cheechako. I have essentially the same setup; a Jabsco diaphragm pump for the daily dry the bilge work but a pair of Rule 4000s for emergencies.

I am very aware of the poor ratings for the new Rule pumps but I think a lot of the problems lie with the built in automatic switches. Also the failures seem to be for pumps that are the primary, day to day pumps.

I have a bilge alarm and just use a manual switch for the emergency pumps. Also the Rules are set in a high spot in the bilge so stay dry and are (hopefully) never used so I expect they will be fine as emergency pumps.

It does seem to be that that Rules <1500 are now near total crap. Rule 1500+ seem to have only issues in their automatic ones and its always around the sensor. But the massive failure rates of their sensors and seeming unwillingness to fix this problem on higher end pumps combined with their total garbage <1500 isn't really instilling a lot of confidence in me.

**skipmac** · 06-05-2016, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by PyotrBee

It does seem to be that that Rules <1500 are now near total crap. Rule 1500+ seem to have only issues in their automatic ones and its always around the sensor. But the massive failure rates of their sensors and seeming unwillingness to fix this problem on higher end pumps combined with their total garbage <1500 isn't really instilling a lot of confidence in me.

I understand but I didn't find a lot of options in high capacity bilge pumps. Look for 4000 gpm and you find Rule or Johnson and I seem to recall pretty negative reviews on the Johnson pumps.

If you find any other options I'm interested but for now, I feel pretty confident in my pair of Rules as emergency use only. I would not buy one for my day to day pump.

wesgardner · 06-05-2016, 12:31

I have a Jabsco and last time it ran, the shaft or connecting rod jumped out of the arm that moves up and down, or actually, the other way 'round, the connecting arm jumped off the shaft. I didn't see it happen but heard it. What's up with that?

zeehag · 06-05-2016, 13:00

rule works. rebuildable good pumps

life is an adventure meant to be LIVED!!!

Blue Stocking · 06-05-2016, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesgardner

I have a Jabsco and last time it ran, the shaft or connecting rod jumped out of the arm that moves up and down, or actually, the other way 'round, the connecting arm jumped off the shaft. I didn't see it happen but heard it. What's up with that?

Only way that can happen is if the NyLok nut has come off the crankshaft.

Personaly, I could never understand why sailors put crap like Rule submersible pumps in the very place where the substance which is trying to drown you is going. I could go on about building proper high capacity filters, properly maintained, oversize clapper type non-return valves, and servicable belt driven pumps, but most people here have drunk the KoolAid. BTW, this post won't last 10 minutes, so read it quick.

zeehag · 06-05-2016, 14:17

some locales the only thing readily available is an easily rebuildable rule. hold the sensor.
rebuild for 300 pesos. not bad. works great. no automaticity. check bilges n pump when needed. high water alarm on my forward pump, and all is great.