Composting toilets or wet sewage systems

[senormechanico]

I know this is probably thread hijacking, but nobody has mentioned the third possibility which is a Coast Guard Approved MSD.

http://raritaneng.com/raritan-produc...nt/electroscan

I'd never go back to a holding tank system or install a kitty litter box for people, especially on a small boat.

Push the button and done. Legally in 99+% of the PNW.
No, I don't do lake sailing.

[smj]

Originally Posted by maelduin

My wife and I have been using the C-head for about 2 years now and one thing that we have noticed is that she has some trouble keeping liquid waste out of the solid. We are wondering if any other females have had this problem and if so, what they did to remedy that. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I agree that simpler is better and don't wish to return to a regular head. Extra storage space on our small boat is valued highly.

Talk to Sandy at C-Head, he has something he designed to help with this problem and I believe will send it to you at no charge.

[smj]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

I know this is probably thread hijacking, but nobody has mentioned the third possibility which is a Coast Guard Approved MSD.

http://raritaneng.com/raritan-produc...nt/electroscan

I'd never go back to a holding tank system or install a kitty litter box for people, especially on a small boat.

Push the button and done. Legally in 99+% of the PNW.
No, I don't do lake sailing.

We had 2 of these and didn’t care for them. Added weight, complexity, high cost and another system to maintain. We were always trying to adjust the salinity to get them to work and they also restrict where we like to sail. Maybe they have significantly improved over the years?

[maelduin]

Thanks SMJ, that's the logical first choice. I'll do that.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by peghall

The belittling tone of your remarks leads me to wonder if you are not the author of the article I mentioned.

No, I am not the author....I haven't even read it. but "belittling"...really?? <LOL>!!

I started to post something very similar, but deleted it, comfortable that you could handle it. Definitely a case of the kettle calling the skillet black and leaping to odd conclusions (even if I didn't know, even the most casual reading of the PS article would suggest it was not your writing style). I didn't write it either, but I've worked with some of the heads they reviewed and they didn't seem far off to me. There are always personal views.

It is also obvious that litter boxes can "work." They work for cats in millions of homes across the US. I've squatted in the woods, when that was the right answer. I've used numerous types of MSDs, each with advantages and disadvantages. I recently downsized to a smaller boat were a holding tank is probably not the right answer, but I have not decided what the right answer is. But what I observed is that threads that proclaim superiority over all else generally use a straw man to make the case. As for people that have trouble with holding tanks systems, it is nearly always poor practice and poor maintenance. Peggy can set them straight in jiffy time.

[bcboomer]

When we bought our boat the sewage system was badly neglected. I ripped it all out and even had to replace the wood in the v-berth.
I installed a C-head because of height constraints and it has been a huge improvement. It requires some work but way less in the long run than a holding tank, and way less yuck factor than dealing with the explosion after it gets plugged.
Our boat smells so fresh that my wife won't even go below on any boat with that "funky" smell. Virtually every boat with a holding tank has that smell.
The only way I'd go back to a marine head would be if I could pump directly overboard and had enough water for a fresh water flush.
And, speaking of cats, if only I could train ours to use it.

[Steve Bean]

Cats can be trained to use the toilet. YouTube is your friend.

[Sail2nite]

I've been using an Air Head for over 10 years on my catarman. It is GREAT! About 90 'deposits' before it needs attention to the 'solids'. Generally, that is at or near the end of my sailing season, so I just leave it in place (with the 12v computer - type fan still running) until a few weeks go by, then I empty it into my flower bed. AT NO TIME does it smell like anything other than moist soil. The liquid is separated from the solids by the head and channels into a 6 qt. holding tank. I have equipped the tank with a pump that can be used to pump into 1 gal jugs,, or overboard (urine is sterile, and the nutrients contained per liter, are below the nutrient discharge allowed by state of the art city sewage treatment plants). The tank is also easily removed for transferring the liquid where-ever.
I run the exhaust hose into my anchor locker -- there is no objectionable odor.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by Steve Bean

Cats can be trained to use the toilet. YouTube is your friend.

Yeah but I don't think I could train her to remove and replace the lid and she probably wouldn't use the appropriate part for urine.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Steve Bean

Cats can be trained to use the toilet. YouTube is your friend.

Actually, my daughter did that. Her cat will also play fetch, come when called, sit, and stay. A lot of training was involved.

[peghall]

It is also obvious that litter boxes can "work." They work for cats in millions of homes across the US.


Including mine...using clumping litter. I'd love to find out whether it can also work in a marine "litter box". It wouldn't work in the more expensive ones because they actually manage to do a little actual composting (they're emptied in just a few weeks, long before the several months needed to finish the job), so they need material that breaks down...cat litter doesn't. But in something like the C-Head, it just MIGHT eliminate the need to separate urine from solids...just change it every few days.

Mingate started this thread, including this in his post:
The PS article said that (all) composting toilets REQUIRE a deck vent, hoses and a powered fan. Since I have had my unit for 3+ years with no deck fitting, hoses or a fan...

That's because he has a C-Head, which is essentially just a litter box and is in Hawaii, where the temperatures are pretty much always in the 70s-80s--ideal for bacterial activity. But like most "composting" zealots, he fails to take into account that not every boat lives in such a balmy climate. Some are where it can get very chilly and acterial activity becomes increasingly sluggish below 60 F...ceases altogether at 40...requiring heated air to keep any "composting" system working. Bacteria also becomes increasingly active above the mid-80s...so on a boat sitting in summer heat that can be 90 F or even higher, a "composting" system without moving air and a vent to the outside of the boat, there'd be no place for odor--or more importantly, methane--to escape from inside the boat. So maybe he should re-read the PS evaluations of "composters" with a little more understanding of why they're not all alike instead of jumping to the conclusion that bigger ad budgets are the only reason some cost more than his C-Head.

[drummer81]

Nice to see a new thread about composting heads. I have been thinking about one in to our boat.

For me the biggest thing would be 150 liters of freed space. In the form of a blackwatertank
And I am allways courious towards simplicity. That is why I like myself so much

I just watched a couple of videos and some questions came to my mind.

The urine is stored separatly with no cap. Does it not spill on a passage/25kts? Or do you just empty it everytime after use?

How often do you wash the solids conteiner? After every you empty it or every third time or is it even nessesary?

Thanks!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by drummer81

Nice to see a new thread about composting heads. I have been thinking about one in to our boat.

For me the biggest thing would be 150 liters of freed space. In the form of a blackwatertank
And I am allways courious towards simplicity. That is why I like myself so much

I just watched a couple of videos and some questions came to my mind.

The urine is stored separatly with no cap. Does it not spill on a passage/25kts? Or do you just empty it everytime after use?

How often do you wash the solids conteiner? After every you empty it or every third time or is it even nessesary?

Hi drummer, recovery and re-purposing of useful space was one of the main reasons I switched to a composter. In the space that used to hold our black water tank I now carry two inflatable kayaks, a bunch of tools, and a drifter sail. Simplicity, safety and freedom from needing to find pump out stations are the other big benefits.

I’m not sure which head you’ve been looking at. Nature’s Head (the one I own) has a urine bottle that is sealed in place while in use. It has never spilled in all our travels. It would require a near knockdown to do that. I’m not sure how the other designs fare on this question.

We empty when it’s approaching full. If we were facing a long, bumpy passage, I’d probably try and empty it before heading off. It’s just part of the management of the boat.

I never wash the solids container. There’s no need to. The material at the end of the cycle is like soil. It empties pretty easily, although I use a small gardening trowl to pick out some of the corner bits. Then just add some new bedding material and you’re done. No need for scrubbing or cleaning.

[peghall]

I have equipped the tank with a pump that can be used to pump into 1 gal jugs,, or overboard (urine is sterile, and the nutrients contained per liter, are below the nutrient discharge allowed by state of the art city sewage treatment plants).

Actually it turns out that urine is NOT sterile after all...as a google search for "is urine sterile" will confirm. And those nutrients you mention increase can increase BOD enough to cause algae blooms where there's a high enough concentration of 'em. They may be below the level that state of the art sewage treatment plants can accept, but if most municipal sewage treatment plants today were state of the art, they wouldn't have to release millions of gallons of UNtreated sewage into the waters every time it rains. And, fwiw, it happens to be just as illegal to dump your urine collection over the side inside the the "3 mile limit" as it is dump a holding tank.

(Hold your fire...I'm just the messenger.)

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by peghall

Actually it turns out that urine is NOT sterile after all...as a google search for "is urine sterile" will confirm.

Yes … and if you extend that search just a whee bit you’ll find that while urine is not 100% sterile (nothing is), it is far more so than just about any other part of the body.

NOTHING is 100% sterile, including the brain. But urine is many factors more sterile than say your skin or mouth. So you better not go swimming.