Composting toilets or wet sewage systems

[Mistress Sirena]

Very lucky to have purchased a boat with a sealand vacuflush toilet with the sealand 40 gal holding tank fresh water flush about 1 pt per flush never a problem going on 5 years never an odor 2 onboard weekly pumpout at about 1/4 full great system. prev owner did a great job on installation.

PS Thanks Red !

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by David B

Cannot see an insult there Mike, but if you have taken offence, then I apologise for apparently causing that offence.

So you think calling someone a “zealot” is not an insult? What was your intent, if not to insult? Seriously, I’d like to know.

[smj]

Originally Posted by David B

Actually I do all of our maintenance myself, and we sail the Med every year - have been for 7 years now. Love it, and the modern conveniences on board such as flushing toilets.



Money - well, we worked hard for 40 years, and finally took the plunge (we became somewhat more focussed on the fragility of life, when my wife was diagnosed with cancer, and resolved when she got the 'all clear' to bring our dream to reality).



We cruise on a very tight budget, and while in many ways it would be nice to pay someone else to do all of the maintenance, the cost is very hard to justify, so where we can, we do it all ourselves. Also, it keeps one's hand in, as we all recognise, cruisers must be as self-sufficient as possible. As we age, we accept that to keep onboard, we will have to use outside help more and more but so far (we are in our mid sixties), all is well.

I’m glad you like your system, and yes in time you will have to get your hands dirty with your own feces and urine, it’s a given.
There is no perfect waste system, either on land or sea, so you must choose what makes you feel comfortable.

[David B]

Originally Posted by smj

I’m glad you like your system, and yes in time you will have to get your hands dirty with your own feces and urine, it’s a given.
There is no perfect waste system, either on land or sea, so you must choose what makes you feel comfortable.

Agreed - nothing perfect, but when/if the time comes, we have rubber gloves and disinfectant.

We have another 3 years to go before we hit the 10 year mark. Perhaps at that stage it will be time to replace hoses, but so far they are still pliable (I give them a squeeze each year to check if there is any calcium built-up).

[smj]

Originally Posted by David B

Agreed - nothing perfect, but when/if the time comes, we have rubber gloves and disinfectant.



We have another 3 years to go before we hit the 10 year mark. Perhaps at that stage it will be time to replace hoses, but so far they are still pliable (I give them a squeeze each year to check if there is any calcium built-up).

How much time per year do you spend on your boat


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[David B]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

So you think calling someone a “zealot” is not an insult? What was your intent, if not to insult? Seriously, I’d like to know.

Good question, but if someone suggested I was a zealot in one matter or another, I would reflect, and question (myself included), then accept that perspective - certainly I don't take it as an insult, but different countries, different perspectives etc.

I just looked it up:
"a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals"
Well, perhaps the official (Bing anyway) definition) is a little stronger than how I interpret it in modern usage. To me, it is the next level up from 'advocate'. 'Fanatic' is a bit strong, but if that's the way you interpret 'zealot' then I understand your perspective Mike.

I am certainly an 'advocate' of properly installed and maintained marine flushing heads - as I am for teak decks (Semco is the best solution I have found), modern in-mast furling systems (Selden seems no problem) etc - anything to make the cruising life easier for us, and others. But while accepting others have negative experiences and views, I still say there are some real zealots out there Mike, however if you consider yourself just an advocate, then so be it.

As for me, I will admit to being a zealot in one area - fair treatment of fellow human beings. Especially when I see the oppression of women in certain cultures, that really gets me going, but I make no apologies for that. Totally off-topic, but just an example.

Well this discussion has been interesting - and I am sure very entertaining for those sitting on the side. But people need to accept that just because they have had bad experiences, does not mean all of us have, and while one solution works for them, I still struggle when it comes to 'composting' toilets to understand the enthusiasm for dealing with waste in that manner, when I and millions of others don't have to deal with it at all - that flush button is a wonderful thing. I appreciate each day, the person who came up with the concept of the flushing toilet

[David B]

Originally Posted by smj

How much time per year do you spend on your boat


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

A quarter of a year - every year, but working up to making that half a year.

[alansmith]

David B., so, sometimes paragraphs can be written and with just the use of one word...the whole thing goes sideways in a hurry. Using the word Zealot has it's origins in ancient Judea. Copy and paste job:

3. (initial capital letter) a member of a radical, warlike, ardently patriotic group of Jews in Judea, particularly prominent from a.d. 69 to 81, advocating the violent overthrow of Roman rule and vigorously resisting the efforts of the Romans and their supporters to heathenize the Jews. Origin of zealot.

Words have meanings. I honestly don't think you mean the term in a hostile or trying to insult sort of way. I think you are trying to convey that people are ardent in their beliefs. But can you reflect on it for a moment and understand that you might be able (just a little bit) to understand how calling someone a Zealot could be like calling them a religious extremist or one who espouses political extremism?

When our fine Canadian talks about what he likes about his C Head...citing it's merits...admitting to some of it's inherent weaknesses his approach is balanced, civil, and succinct. He is not trying to convert people to his HEAD. He is sharing valuable information about what his real world results are with this product. That is civil banter and no one is offended.

I have learned some things on this thread. I never knew about Electroscan types of toilets. All the boats i crewed on had that funky stank. Smell it everytime you dropped into the companionway. We all been there.

I think sometimes as life forms walking on the blue planet we just need to 'up our game' and be more conscientious in how we communicate. There are those who need a good thumping to learn civility.

About banning....i am suggesting (like we do with children) a "time out" for a week when they get down right nasty. If that doesn't bring them up on a short chain...then ban their sorry arses out of here. Why should we allow hateful or downright slanderous attacks on one another? Speaking agendas or misaligned business models to people they know almost nothing about..Verboten.

[alansmith]

David....ha ha...as i was writing my post you had covered it similarly to what i state. I also don't want you to think i am posting that you have said anything that i think is "out there"...

I just want people to play nice...glean information...get fresh ideas....CF as source of fun, information, love of boats, and group of people promoting the ideas of self awareness of our planet's beauty and health. I highly encourage our moderators to come down hard on abusive people with slander and abusive language. It poisons the atmosphere in our home. There isn't one topic that can't be discussed ...no matter how vitriolic ....if insults and/or attacks are not employed.

[David B]

Originally Posted by alansmith

David B., so, sometimes paragraphs can be written and with just the use of one word...the whole thing goes sideways in a hurry. Using the word Zealot has it's origins in ancient Judea. Copy and paste job:

3. (initial capital letter) a member of a radical, warlike, ardently patriotic group of Jews in Judea, particularly prominent from a.d. 69 to 81, advocating the violent overthrow of Roman rule and vigorously resisting the efforts of the Romans and their supporters to heathenize the Jews. Origin of zealot.

Words have meanings. I honestly don't think you mean the term in a hostile or trying to insult sort of way. I think you are trying to convey that people are ardent in their beliefs. But can you reflect on it for a moment and understand that you might be able (just a little bit) to understand how calling someone a Zealot could be like calling them a religious extremist or one who espouses political extremism?

When our fine Canadian talks about what he likes about his C Head...citing it's merits...admitting to some of it's inherent weaknesses his approach is balanced, civil, and succinct. He is not trying to convert people to his HEAD. He is sharing valuable information about what his real world results are with this product. That is civil banter and no one is offended.

I have learned some things on this thread. I never knew about Electroscan types of toilets. All the boats i crewed on had that funky stank. Smell it everytime you dropped into the companionway. We all been there.

I think sometimes as life forms walking on the blue planet we just need to 'up our game' and be more conscientious in how we communicate. There are those who need a good thumping to learn civility.

About banning....i am suggesting (like we do with children) a "time out" for a week when they get down right nasty. If that doesn't bring them up on a short chain...then ban their sorry arses out of here. Why should we allow hateful or downright slanderous attacks on one another? Speaking agendas or misaligned business models to people they know almost nothing about..Verboten.

Nicely put Alan. I particularly like:
"I honestly don't think you mean the term in a hostile or trying to insult sort of way. I think you are trying to convey that people are ardent in their beliefs"

Ardent - good word that! And yes you are correct - certainly no offence meant.

I do take the original meaning, but language changes (remember when we could all claim to be having a 'gay' time, or feeling 'gay' - there was even an icecream over here called 'Gaytime' - just one example of the dynamic form of language).

Totally agree with your other comments too. 'Discussion' is healthy, but we do see some 'discussion' getting into the gutter, and when it's there, it and the perpetrators, need to be 'flushed' (as the French do with their street gutters in Paris each morning - nice concept if you have the water).

I think by now you will have seen my earlier response to Mike, so that should cover the thing.

One more 'different perspective' example. Friends of ours have flushing heads but ban anything not eaten first, from going down there, so that means no toilet paper - at all! (it apparently goes into a plastic bag each time and is then thrown out with the waste). Not our position (we use all we need, and then some), but just one more perspective, and one more way of doing things as a result of that.

Well, it's been quite an interesting time here today - what a great discussion this would be around a campfire on a beach with a group of cruisers coming together for the evening

[David B]

Originally Posted by alansmith

David....ha ha...as i was writing my post you had covered it similarly to what i state. I also don't want you to think i am posting that you have said anything that i think is "out there"...

I just want people to play nice...glean information...get fresh ideas....CF as source of fun, information, love of boats, and group of people promoting the ideas of self awareness of our planet's beauty and health. I highly encourage our moderators to come down hard on abusive people with slander and abusive language. It poisons the atmosphere in our home. There isn't one topic that can't be discussed ...no matter how vitriolic ....if insults and/or attacks are not employed.

All good Alan - no problem here, and hopefully Mike is OK too now (would be great to meet up with you guys one day, but the world is still a big place in many ways ....).

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by David B

All good Alan - no problem here, and hopefully Mike is OK too now (would be great to meet up with you guys one day, but the world is still a big place in many ways ....).

Indeed David, if you had used “advocate” we would not be having this unfortunately testy discussion. I would even accept “ardent.” Zealot is a term with many serious negative connotations, particularly these days.

I believe you did not intend it this way, and happily accept your apology. Perhaps my response was a tad strong, and for that I too apologize. I can only say yours came on the heels of a number of other insults that clearly were meant as that, and some included the same term you inadvertently used. That is my explanation, and my excuse, for jumping down your throat. Again, apologies all round…

As I said (and have said every time this topic comes up), I am happy to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly of these types of heads. My main purpose for being in this discussion is to respond to questions from interested folks, share my own experiences, and perhaps learn a few new tips.

There is no such thing as a perfect head. Heck, there’s no perfect anything when it comes to boat systems. I welcome civil and thoughtful discussion about the pros and cons of various choices. Sadly, the mention of “composting heads” seems to trigger a viscerally negative response from some — most of whom have little or no actual experience with them.

My own theory (playing pop-psychologist ) is this is because most humans have an instinctual ‘disgust’ reaction to feces — particularly human poop. It’s no doubt an evolutionary trait we’ve acquired over our genetic history. This is why most people prefer to flush-and-forget — at least those of us in developed countries. As I’m sure you know, most of the world doesn’t have that luxury.

[handmer]

One of my favourite aspects of a composting toilet is being able to use baby wipes. Oh so fresh.

Perhaps it's an unneeded luxury, but it's something I miss when back on dry land using a normal toilet.

[smj]

Seems every time this discussion comes up it brings back memories of 16 years of full time living aboard with a standard Marine waste system. Makes the last 10 years of living with a composter seem ever so sweet.

[thinwater]

Mono vs multi threads can get like this, just as far off the point. Personally, I like multis but I recognize that there are strong cases for both.

I see the same thing here. If you can't continence alternative heads (or multihulls) then don't get one.

I'm lurking, waiting to be informed. Like multihulls, I can see it depends on what is important to you and what compromises (both ways) work for you. It could even be that the best answer is yet to come.
---
I have perhaps a unique need (or it should be). I would like to be able to move it into the cockpit at night since there is no head compartment in the cabin. Thus, both size and weight are strictly limited. I would like to not have to dump it each time someone uses it day sailing. Finally, I'm not sure about training folks to use something different... but marine heads are different, so that should be possible.