Confusion re: bilge pump replacement

[Nani Kai]

2012 Leopard 39 Catamaran. Port engine compartment bilge pump needs replacement (see photos). I'm away from the boat which is being monitored and maintained by service providers at the marina. Evidently the bilge pump had been running non-stop for hours but with no water coming out and no water in the bilge. It’s stopped running for the nonce but I figure if the pump has been running non-stop it’s probably on the verge of burning itself up so I intend to replace it.

The existing pump is a Rule 1100gph with a "smart switch" which was new to me. Evidently this pump turns itself on every 2.5 mins to see if water is detected, determined by the load put on the pump. If no load, it turns itself off. Then back on in 2.5 minutes. Wha……?

Desirability of this ‘feature’ aside, my pump is also hooked up to the traditional float switch (photo) which as you can see is gunked up. Supposedly no float switch is needed with the smart feature built into the pump.

My supposition is that either the float switch got stuck in the ‘on’ position causing the uninterrupted pumping OR something went awry with the smart switch. Either way I am replacing it.

I want to replace it with a higher GPH model that uses the same 1 1/8” discharge hose. The Rule 2000 fits this need but does NOT have the smart switch. However the 2000 draws 8.4 amps and the 1100 is protected with a 5 amp fuse. A Rule 1500 draws only 4.8 amps, also with no smart switch.

Not knowing exactly where the fuse is installed (can’t get to the boat until November) and also not knowing if the wiring would need to be upgraded to a heavier gauge with the 2000, I am thinking of buying the 1500 along with a new float switch and having those installed.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why that’s not the best choice? I just don’t see the value in the smart switch concept.

Thanks.

[Turtle Blues]

IMHO smart switches aren't smart or long term reliable. If you figgure how many times they cycle in a 2 year period it's no wonder that that's about their life span. I would scrub the crud off the float switch and stick in the 1500 manual.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by Turtle Blues

IMHO smart switches aren't smart or long term reliable. If you figgure how many times they cycle in a 2 year period it's no wonder that that's about their life span. I would scrub the crud off the float switch and stick in the 1500 manual.

Thanks for your response. Pretty much in line with my reasoning. I ordered the 1500 shortly after reading your thoughts. It should be arriving soon.

I will probably buy a new float switch as well because it's as old as the bilge pump. Without it there is no bilge pump unless manually operated.

I'll keep the old one for a spare.

Aloha,
Nani Kai

[Turtle Blues]

Additional Suggestion: Stick with Rule.
Just disassembled a failed orange "replaceable cartridge" style pump. That description on the package begs the question why.
The drive shaft had completely dissolved in less than 2 years.

[Nani Kai]

Yep, I've had good success with Rule products over several decades and numerous boats. Stick with what works.

Thanks.

[Scott Berg]

While some Rule pumps are still OK (the 1500, 2000, and 3700 are the most reliable in our experience the ONLY switch we will sell or install is the Ultra Safety System switch. Expensive yes, and we would actually make more money (much more mark up) on the Rule switches plus repeat sales) we won't sell them as they fail too often. The USS switches NEVER fail in our experience. Well worth it. https://tefgel.com/contain.php?param=pumpswitch_price

[capn_billl]

Magnetic reed switches are very reliable.

Rule toggle float switches have never been the same once they switched from mercury to the little ball.

I've seen them stuck on, and had to jiggle them to turn them on even when completely submerged once resulting in a flooded engine compartment.


2nd on the "smart" switches. The little transister is way undersized, burns power when the bilge is empty, and fails on. And turns the bilge pump on every few minutes jolting me awake in the middle of the night.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by Scott Berg

While some Rule pumps are still OK (the 1500, 2000, and 3700 are the most reliable in our experience the ONLY switch we will sell or install is the Ultra Safety System switch. Expensive yes, and we would actually make more money (much more mark up) on the Rule switches plus repeat sales) we won't sell them as they fail too often. The USS switches NEVER fail in our experience. Well worth it. https://tefgel.com/contain.php?param=pumpswitch_price

Thanks for this link. There was an in depth discussion here on this topic a couple of years ago. I'd forgotten that the general consensus was there are better float switch options out there. I'll take a look at the ones you suggest. My thinking is when you need the bilge pump you want it to work. No questions. No hesitations. No fails. Worth spending the extra money. Thanks again.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Magnetic reed switches are very reliable.

Rule toggle float switches have never been the same once they switched from mercury to the little ball.

I've seen them stuck on, and had to jiggle them to turn them on even when completely submerged once resulting in a flooded engine compartment.


2nd on the "smart" switches. The little transister is way undersized, burns power when the bilge is empty, and fails on. And turns the bilge pump on every few minutes jolting me awake in the middle of the night.

The "stuck on" situation is exactly what I'm having trouble with. I figured it was the smart switch so replaced the pump. I'm also replacing the float switch and now you and ScottBerg have gotten me looking at better switches. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[barnakiel]

I have found those switches fail a lot.


The pump looks undersized so I understand there are many through each hull.


b.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I have found those switches fail a lot.

The pump looks undersized so I understand there are many through each hull.

b.

Yeah, the float switches seem to be the weak link in the chain.

As for the undersized pump I agree. I have always been an advocate of high volume bilge pumps. I want the water to stay outside the boat. The challenge in this particular case is the electrical circuit to the bilge pump is set up with a 5A fuse and, I'm assuming, a corresponding wire gauge. The next size up in bilge pumps required 10A if I remember correctly. I don't want to overload the electricals connected to this pump so I got the largest size that didn't exceed 5A draw.

When I get back to the boat in October I'm going to look at the possibility of running a new circuit capable of carrying a heavier load and installing bigger pumps and better float switches. I'll post here if I decide to go that way.

btw, are you "Barnakiel" that was at Brunswick Marina on 14 dock? If so, our boat is E'lani Kai, right across from you.

Howzit going?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Scott Berg

While some Rule pumps are still OK (the 1500, 2000, and 3700 are the most reliable in our experience the ONLY switch we will sell or install is the Ultra Safety System switch. Expensive yes, and we would actually make more money (much more mark up) on the Rule switches plus repeat sales) we won't sell them as they fail too often. The USS switches NEVER fail in our experience. Well worth it. https://tefgel.com/contain.php?param=pumpswitch_price

Originally Posted by Nani Kai

Thanks for this link. There was an in depth discussion here on this topic a couple of years ago. I'd forgotten that the general consensus was there are better float switch options out there. I'll take a look at the ones you suggest. My thinking is when you need the bilge pump you want it to work. No questions. No hesitations. No fails. Worth spending the extra money. Thanks again.

FWIW, a few years ago I did a "market survey" of sorts here and on a couple other fora... to learn what might be best marine float switches. I think the Ultra models (Senior and Junior) came first in all three places, although I seem to remember less expensive models did well in at least one forum

IOW, there were a couple of decent also-rans, at least in the "voting." A Johnson something, IIRC... can't remember... and I went with an Ultra Senior.

Across the board, non-mercury pivoting float switches got worst reviews, no matter brand.

-Chris