continued quest for sweeter smelling head

[Bill O]

When you did the hoses, did you also change the vent hose? Sometimes those are just cheap rubber hose and will permeate.

We replaced our hoses w/PVC sched 40 for most of the system and used the top of line Vetus hose for sections we couldn't fit the hard pipe. No smell!

[markxengineerin]

PVC sounds great but I'm going to have to figure out how to do the end connections to the components I'm working with. It looks like this stuff is all designed for hoses + band clamps. Re the vent hose, I think I did replace it, as it's wrapped in foil too. It was the same style as the rest of the hoses, just smaller diameter.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

PVC sounds great but I'm going to have to figure out how to do the end connections to the components I'm working with. It looks like this stuff is all designed for hoses + band clamps.

Not to worry, "Marine Sanitation" has all the do-dads/parts to connect PVC pipe to hose(s).
Also various fittings to make "Dip tubes" for a tank.
A perusal thru their site finds all sorts of stuff.

https://marinesan.com/pvc-fittings/

[Shrew]

Were all the hoses changed? Including pump-out, discharge, and/or macerator hoses? Vent?

Have you checked for leaks at the holding tank fittings?

I chased an issue down for a very long time. It ended up being a crack at the fitting at the top of the tank used for the pump-out line. It only leaked if the tank was 1/2 full or more while underway, or when getting pumped-out.

I found it by attempting to 'pressurize' the holding tank by filling it with freshwater to check for leaks at the upper fittings.

[Scrimshaw4]

Sanitation hoses greater than 7+ years old need to be replaced. Anti-siphon and vent lines need to be checked and cleaned out regularly. On the advice of a dock hand running the pump out boat we started using the Scrubbing Bubbles Toilet Bowl Gel. It it has a wand applicator. Put a dollop in the bowl under the rim where the most water enters during the flush. It has been a game changer. No Odor in the head! JMHO
PS: Because holding tanks at times don't get fully pumped out, over time sediment will form and build up in the bottom of the tank. I've put a cup of septic tank microbes in the tank, thru the pump out fitting, and flushed it down with some fresh water. The boats normal rocking motion will help distribute the microbes and stir up the sediment. Let it set for a few days at a minimum and then add water to the tank and pump it out. Several cycles of the above will clear the tank. Add some more product periodically to maintain the tank. Again JMHO

[markxengineerin]

The tank was recently 100% cleaned out manually because it had cracked itself open. I know that bit of evidence added sounds like "vent clogged", but the vent is very open, not restricting airflow at all. I think the damage was due to accumulated sloshing loads+ poor build quality, it was very thin fiberglass. Or maybe the suction of a pump-out. (?)

I have not seen any liquid leaks or evidence of leaks in the plumbing, but I guess a hairline crack in a fitting above the normal level is possible, leaking air. It would not surprise me, it's plastic from 1994 and I had to manhandle some of the old hoses out- easy to crack something. It's hard to debug a tiny crack at anchor, I need a calm day to go out to 5 miles and pump it totally full of seawater, after a few clean flushes.
Would lightly pressurizing the system with a hand air pump, hooked up to vent tube, work, or would this blow thru the joker valve? I could do that + soapy water to look for air tiny leaks.

Yes, every single hose was replaced 1 year ago or less.

Thanks for the PVC link, those fittings look perfect if I can't find a leak and go that route.

Scrubbing Bubbles Toilet Bowl Gel. It it has a wand applicator. Put a dollop in the bowl under the rim where the most water enters during the flush.

I'm willing to try anything, but the odor is not coming from the bowl area, just the cabinets, and much worse during pump-out.

[Capt Clark]

How often is the head used & are you flushing with salt water?

[peghall]

Flex PVC # 148 (least expensive single walled sanitation hose)permeated (began to stink) on one of my own boats in less than 90 days. Odor was the only thing it "wept."


--Peggie

[Bowdrie]

It's not correct to arbitrarily state that "so-and-so" hose will only last X amount of time.
Everything depends upon its placement in the system, whether sewage or water stands in it, and even how tightly its bent, (which stretches the walls on the outside of the bend,) and whether fresh or salt water is used for flushing.
Last year I rebuilt the entire system, new tank and all.
Some of those old hose sections, (#148 Shields,) were 25 years old and never had ANY smell.
Why? Because they weren't full of sewage and water continuously.
But yes, I can empathize with many, designers probably do the head layouts as an afterthought, no glamor involved.

Edit; Use PVC pipe and the fittings I referenced from "Marine Sanitation" where you can, use hose where you must, avoid sharp bends as much as possible, double clamp everything.

[peghall]

It's not correct to arbitrarily state that "so-and-so" hose will only last X amount of time.

I didn't say, nor mean to imply, that. Better quality hose quality hoses have 5 or even 10 year warranties against odor permeation that don't include any exclusions for plumbing that leaves sewage standing them etc. Flex PVC #148 has no such warranty.

Fwiw,I've been told by many yard managers that 10 years is the average working life of ANY hose, because rubber and plastics dry out over time, becoming hard, brittle and prone to cracking and splitting. BOAT/US published an article a number of years ago in which they stated that old hoses connected to a thru-hull left open when no one is aboard is one of the most common causes of boats sinking in their slips.

And btw...hard pipe should always be "soft coupled" with several inches of hose when connected to anything rigid--toilet, tank thru-hull etc.-- to protect from shock or stress on the connection.

--Peggie

[Bowdrie]

Peg, a thousand pardons I beg from you.
In no way was I trying to, (the word I wanted escapes me,) for anything you wrote.
I was trying to speak to those who come-up with all kinds of arbitrary "time limits" for all kinds of issues that have a way of popping-up.
"How long will my dock lines last", or "How often should I, (insert your choice).
The list could be pages long, but "time" is not always quantifiable, it changes with operating conditions/severity of use.

Edit; Yes, my system is just so.
Individual assemblies of pipe/fittings that are interconnected/connected with short lengths of hose.
Regards fittings, while you probably won't find them in a Big Box store you can get 22-1/2 degree elbows.
I stand by my thoughts about "wire reinforced" hose, it is the devil's choice, miserable at best on a boat.
It should only be used when absolutely necessary.
Properly layed-out/supported hose runs don't need the wire to prevent hose collapse.
If you think the suction hose from holding tank to pump/deck fitting will collapse, get heavier hose from a hose/rubber supply, wire as a last resort.
Wet exhaust hose sometimes needs wire, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

[Windpilot]

Get a good digester like NoFlex, expensive but worth every penny.

[markxengineerin]

How often is the head used & are you flushing with salt water?

Salt water, used daily, I live aboard

I am sure the hoses could be permeated, but they are wrapped solid in aluminum foil tape, and it doesn't explain whey the smell gets 20x worse while discharging. My next step is to pressurize the system and look for leaks w/ soapy water. I'm thinking the pressure changes caused by running the macerator pump must be forcing bad air out somewhere that liquid can't get to. But if that turns up nothing, PVC conversion + higher quality hoses are next.

[NormanMartin]

Flush with fresh water. Replace hoses, why not!

We are setting up my daughter's 30 footer with a dedicated fresh water flush tank which we can do... fortunately.

Peggy is right about other sources. Clean the bilge and lockers, too.

[BAD ORCA]

If your cabinetry is permeated with smell, that could take a long time to go away even if you eliminate the problem.

My old aluminum tank in the v-berth was leaking. I ripped out the entire system and am in the process of replacing everything new. The v-berth stank for well over a year even after multiple bleaching's and cleanings. It was definitely better after the cleaning but took a long time to go away completely.

Not sure if there is a simple solution to speed up that process though?