continued quest for sweeter smelling head

[markxengineerin]

I wish there was such thing as a smell-o-meter , hard to even get nose access to these things to start process of elimination. Permeated cabinetry is very likely.
I don't think fresh water flush or tank treatments are addressing the root of the problem- people are reporting non-smelly heads without those things.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

and it doesn't explain whey the smell gets 20x worse while discharging.

Could the problem be with the inlet hoses and something has rotted or died inside?

Pete

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

Salt water, used daily, I live aboard

I am sure the hoses could be permeated, but they are wrapped solid in aluminum foil tape, and it doesn't explain whey the smell gets 20x worse while discharging. My next step is to pressurize the system and look for leaks w/ soapy water. I'm thinking the pressure changes caused by running the macerator pump must be forcing bad air out somewhere that liquid can't get to. But if that turns up nothing, PVC conversion + higher quality hoses are next.

Mark,
Do you have an anti-siphon loop in the cabinet? Check your vent in the loop as that maybe the source of your smell.

[MoonShadow777]

Probably an over simplification but try flushing through with fresh water when leaving for a while 🤔
🙏🏼

[mcon12000]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

I do not have the book, trying forum wisdom first, but I'd like to get a copy.

The hoses are 1 year old, but the cheap ones, all I could source at the time. I hoped that covering them in aluminum tape would prevent permeation, the stuff has been good in other applications and I'm still not certain it has failed here.

When a hose says it's good for 10 years, does this mean with sewage in it, or can no flexible hose handle that?

I am considering a complete re-design of the head system at this point- I have wasted a lot of time and energy replacing every hose, rebuilding the tank, rebuilding to toilet itself, and it still smells. I don't know what Pacific Seacraft was thinking, 15 gallons isn't big enough in the first place.

I can help.

First the cheap hoses (white flexible style) will last approximately one year. Why? Because they develop micro cracks during the installation.

Second the 10 year hose is not only easier to install it will also last ten years with zero smell.

Remove all the hoses and get them outside on the dock or deck. When I say all of them I mean all of them it only takes a tiny 6” piece that’s compromised to cause a problem. Give it thirty minutes and do the smell test if it still stinks there’s a plastic part or hose that’s been missed. Remove the y valve, clean/disassemble it and leave it in the dock. After a few minutes give it the smell test and it’s highly likely there’s zero. If it’s more than a five years old just buy a new one so everything will remain problem free for years.

The smell will not linger in the fiberglass or even the wood cabinets it will disappear within minutes to a few hours after the hoses are pulled.

Defender has great pricing on the 10 year hose and you’re not going to believe how much easier it is to work with. They do not offer a size that will work for a standard vent line hose but your problem is not the vent line hose.

I made the same mistake you did when replacing the hoses on my new to me boat. They barely made it a year and I’ve since replaced them with the high quality hoses. That was two years ago and there’s absolutely zero odor.

EDIT….

The anti siphon valve needs to be tied into the vent line and after reading that it gets worse after a flush leads me to believe this needs attention. That said the odor is the cheap hoses and that’s why it’s accumulated when the cabinets are closed. Removing and cleaning the y valve like I mention above may reveal a blockage that’s exacerbating the problem.

[Montanan]

Poo-Pourri, never leave home without it.

The Potty On version has a nice scent.

[mcon12000]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

I wish there was such thing as a smell-o-meter , hard to even get nose access to these things to start process of elimination. Permeated cabinetry is very likely.
I don't think fresh water flush or tank treatments are addressing the root of the problem- people are reporting non-smelly heads without those things.

Tank treatment is completely unnecessary we don’t use any chemicals.

Fresh water flush is helpful for two things.

1. Hard buildup in the lines will go away

2. The sulfur smell from decaying marine life in a toilet intake that’s left unused for a week or two will go away.

We have a saltwater head and zero odor so I can confirm that “your problem” is not going away with either of the above. I have all the parts to convert my electric head to freshwater but I’m doing that to eliminate the hard buildup not odor.

[Cat-a-tonic]

Another source of smells is the seawater inlet hose to the heads. I installed a SeaStart Marine Toilet Sanitizer ( see www.SeaSmartMarine.com). This battery driven gadget injects small doses of sanitiser down a thin catheter tube inside the inlet pipe to just above the seacock when the heads are flushed (and occasionally when left dormant). Works for me. Note that I am not an agent for SeaSmart just a happy user.

[2Captains]

I agree with all the comments regarding waste hoses, but for me the answer was fresh water heads. Night and day. This might not be your problem, but for me is it was the smell of stagnant seawater in the hoses. Flushing until waste is cleared leaves seawater in the hoses. Let sit for a while in heat and you get that horrible boat smell. With fresh water heads, that is all gone. If I smell something now, it is from the hoses, but believe it or not the smell from the waste hoses is far more mild than the smell of festering seawater.

[JonJG]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Could the problem be with the inlet hoses and something has rotted or died inside?

Pete

We had a terrible heads smell problem. Then we came across the SeaSmart toilet sanitation unit and this much improved it. The suggestion from Pete is exactly the science behind how the SeaSmart operates - by eliminating the bacterial decomposition in the intake pipe that takes place between flushes. The dose is applied through a tube that is installed along the length of the intake pipe to just short of the seacock.
Our holding tanks are still problematic, as all are but we have tried dosing this to varied success, but the smells only show when the outside vent operates.
Worth considering the SeaSmert or similar.

Good Luck

[nofacey]

Not sure where you heard wrapping cheap hose with tinfoil tape was the way to go……it’s not. Sorry, You wasted your time - installing good sanitation hose is step 1, as repeated multiple times so far on this thread. Get over it, get the right hose (or hose/pvc pipe combo) and move on.

[markxengineerin]

Not sure where you heard wrapping cheap hose with tinfoil tape was the way to go……it’s not. Sorry, You wasted your time

I decided to try it because I could not source the better hoses in the timeframe I had available. I know from personal experience that odor does not penetrate the tape, as applied around the lid of the holding tank. I sealed the seam with silicon, which is highly permeable, and it smelled. I added the tape, smell under V berth mattress completely gone. Night and day difference.

Do you have additional reasoning to back up what you're saying? I could see the tape getting damaged when the hoses were bent, but there are a few layers, and I don't see any other reasons why it would work so well in one application but not another.

To the rest of the suggestions, thanks, I haven't had a chance to make any progress on testing them out yet, will post back when I do. I hope it's a bad vent valve in the anti siphon, but that was also new a year ago. The last thing I want to do is replace all the hoses, nasty job, and have the same result. I don't think permeated hoses explain the most dramatic symptom: extra odor on pump-out, so I'm not convinced yet.

[Apollo366]

I once had a boat that had the smell problem almost all the time. Even after replacing all the hose with the 10 yr kind, West Marine even gave me credit for the stuff I brought back after less than one year of use that the smell permeated.
Turned out the overboard discharge thru hull ball valve shaft was at fault! Next haul out it was replaced & smell gone!!
The leak was so small that it passes the paper towel test, but when it was sprayed with chlorine water the smell went away for 24 hrs, then came back.

Give it a try, and al so get Peggy's book & follow it to the letter.

[Bill_Giles]

Flush the bowl thoroughly after use. If leaving the boat for more than a day or two flush through with fresh water.

[ovidiunelu]

"Continued quest for sweeter smelling head" I do have a solution. STOP using it as a toilet.