Diesel Gelling in Cold Weather

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Than any diesel you buy after November will already be winter diesel. If electric doesn't suit you maybe propane. I've been near some liveaboards that did that in the winter in New England and they just put the big 100lb. propane tank in the cockpit for the winter. Every boat I have wintered near that used diesel heaters had problems. Good luck.

I’m sorry but I’m not buying new heaters. I’m keeping the ones I already have.

I have two of them so it’s not a big deal. If one goes down I’ll buy another one.

There are hundreds of people on this forum that are having no problem at all with their diesel heaters.

For the price of one month of the cost of electric heat that only puts out 6 kW, I can buy five new diesel heaters.

It’s just doesn’t make any sense economically to do otherwise. Also I need real heat.

The only propane heater that would work would be 2 of these:

https://www.northerntool.com/product...wdv150bp-44638

And they’re not exactly made to get the heat down where it needs to be. It would be up on the bridge deck and the hulls would remain cold.

Then there are the little toys. Like I used to have in an RV I built out before sprinter RVs became popular. The Newport from Dickinson. I’d need 5 of those running to get the required heat output.

Most previous winters I heated my boats with wood. Cut it, split it, stacked it, and burned it and stayed up at night to stoke the fire. That was in a monohull and a smaller cat.

Even if I lose a heater and have to buy a new one (2 day delivery on Amazon prime), I still have more heat than a 50a shore power connection can create.

Really struggling here because you haven’t put in any information. Just an opinion. There are no numbers in your post. Nothing.

Where did you winter over before in the past when you stayed on the boat? Also in New England?

I can appreciate the simplicity of propane, but the installation is not possible on my boat. Heat has to go down low as you probably know. How do you get the exhaust out of there? You don’t. Plus, how do you get propane? Especially 100 pounds? Maybe delivery I guess?

There are a lot of holes in your post because there are no numbers and there’s no practicality involved here. Have you actually winter over before? I think this is my fifth time. Might be my fourth. losing count.

[SailingHarmonie]

It's a bit hard to wrap my head around not being able to get kerosene in Maine in the winter.

Many (most?) houses are heated with fuel oil and they all use K1 as an anti-gell diluent. Every fuel oil dealer will have it. If they won't deliver, you'll need to go get it. If you don't have the means to transport it, in my experience the people in Maine will go out of their way to help you. You don't even need to make friends, you just ask for help, and it appears.

There is no other "magic" solution. You can't add a little bottle of magic elixir to summer blend diesel to prevent it from gelling. You need to dilute it with K1 or K2. That's just physical chemistry.

We can't help you with HOW you get it. You're a rocket scientist, you'll need to figure it out.

[Kettlewell]

Have you actually winter over before?

Three times in Rhode Island and Massachusetts, and we used electric each time but we had small, deep wooden sailboats with covers so the heating requirements were much lower than yours. If you will be using diesel make sure the marina or dock you are at will allow you to fuel up at the docks. Many won't allow fuel to be carried or dispensed on the docks. I'm done with this thread. Good luck!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Three times in Rhode Island and Massachusetts, and we used electric each time but we had small, deep wooden sailboats with covers so the heating requirements were much lower than yours. If you will be using diesel make sure the marina or dock you are at will allow you to fuel up at the docks. Many won't allow fuel to be carried or dispensed on the docks. I'm done with this thread. Good luck!

To be honest, your posts were pretty frustrating. For no reason. I appreciate that we did have different heating requirements. I used to have the same requirements you do and fulfilled them with a woodstove. That was some heating power. But, I have no idea why you are coming in here telling me to buy different heaters or use $1200/mo electric heat that can’t even be delivered to the boat because it would take a 100A connection to do so. That was bad advice as well as off topic. The topic is not having diesel gel in cold weather. No other heating source (except propane or wood, both of which would require a hole in the decks of each hull) would work. The one other possibility is an RV furnace but finding propane when you are traveling and at anchor and stuff is nightmarish. Diesel is right at the fuel dock in every harbor. My boat isn’t so much a live aboard boat as a moving and traveling boat. Even though I am wintering over. So I would like my heat to work when I an not near a dock, which is every moment of every day that isn’t November-April this year. October and May still have an occasional chilly morning. I still want my heat to work at those times without hunting for propane.

Don’t worry. I wouldn’t stay at any marina that didn’t allow you to carry a jerry can to your boat. Which ones have you run into that didn’t allow that? How did you get your dinghy gas to the boat in that case?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

It's a bit hard to wrap my head around not being able to get kerosene in Maine in the winter.

Many (most?) houses are heated with fuel oil and they all use K1 as an anti-gell diluent. Every fuel oil dealer will have it. If they won't deliver, you'll need to go get it. If you don't have the means to transport it, in my experience the people in Maine will go out of their way to help you. You don't even need to make friends, you just ask for help, and it appears.

There is no other "magic" solution. You can't add a little bottle of magic elixir to summer blend diesel to prevent it from gelling. You need to dilute it with K1 or K2. That's just physical chemistry.

We can't help you with HOW you get it. You're a rocket scientist, you'll need to figure it out.

That’s actually pretty funny at the end. That last line. You know some rockets run on kerosene don’t you? Ha ha

But look, this is a very very non-New England post you just made. In New England you don’t manifest things and hope random chance gets you through the cold winter. You prepare ahead of time in the fall so you are ready when the cold winter hits.

Instead of manifesting and letting the universe take care of it, you use a different burning man philosophy called radical self reliance. That’s the New England Way.

So, I can depend on what I have available. Not what might happen by chance.

I have a diesel pump available, I have a hardware store available. That points to using the blended diesel that’s available as people have been talking about that works pretty far down in temperature, and then adding things to it.

They make home heating fuel additives or elixirs that the home heating fuel people recommend and are available at Ace Hardware. They also have extremely expensive kerosene available at ace hardware.

As an aside, physical chemistry also says I can just use gasoline at a lower mix ratio than kerosene. What about that? I think the only reason it’s not commonly used is the flammable vapor issue. I don’t care about that. It’s outside.

I was reading that kerosene is something like $7 a gallon right now. That’s pretty pricey. I’m not sure what’s driving that price but apparently it’s very high right now. And that’s at a pump. It’s $12 a gallon at Ace.

However, I was also reading that the ratio of mixing they use at some heating fuel places is 10:1 and that gets you through just about any winter.

I can also have the additives or kerosene come in via Amazon. But I’d rather support the local hardware store.

So, between the additives that can get you down lower than a kerosene mix and the kerosene itself, the thread is solved I think.

I’ll use home heating oil anti gel additives available at ace (or the diesel ones used by truckers) or I’ll just buy 5 gallons of kerosene at the hardware store for $60 and add it at around a 10% mix ratio like the fuel companies do in the depths of winter.

That makes the kerosene fuel mix $5.47 a gallon. Steep, but it’ll work. Probably more economical to use the elixir recommended by the home heating oil people, but at least both are available.

PS: delivery is 150 gallons minimum from home heating oil companies fyi

Edit: that physical chemistry comment really has me thinking I might just use gasoline. Even thinner than kerosene and can’t freeze at all. Kerosene does freeze at -40. Not that I will get there. But maybe a 20:1 with gasoline would work and be more economical at $3.50/gal vs $7-12 a gallon for kerosene.

[Chotu]

Gasoline would also cut down on the soot factor.

It’s not an engine so the lubricant (soot creating) factors don’t matter.

[deblen]

Heating cost in Maine
https://www.maine.gov/energy/heating-fuel-prices


Sources
https://www.fieldingsoil.com/heating...veryzones.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVkDtlWI8jg

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by deblen

Heating cost in Maine
https://www.maine.gov/energy/heating-fuel-prices


Sources
https://www.fieldingsoil.com/heating...veryzones.html

Sure is cheap delivered in bulk! (And buying early before winter hits) Wow

[deblen]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Sure is cheap delivered in bulk! (And buying early before winter hits) Wow

Buy your diesel where the local comm. fishermen fuel up.It will be "winterized".

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by deblen

Buy your diesel where the local comm. fishermen fuel up.It will be "winterized".

That’s a pretty good point. Any fuel dock where the police and the fisherman are getting diesel in the winter is probably going to be pretty good stuff.

[Nord Sal]

If the fuel is solely to run your heater, use No. 1 fuel oil instead of No. 2 (diesel). This will eliminate any potential for gelling and your heater will run better.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Traditionally, the "home remedy" to keep fuel oil (or diesel fuel) from gelling was to admix it with kerosene. Typically a 50/50 mix is used to keep fuel oil liquid in outdoor tanks in Maine. This burns fine in any normal diesel engine.

This is an easy solution with no risky downsides. These heaters will run fine on pure kerosene, and it's recommended to run a gallon through every year or so to help clean out soot. So adding some kerosene is an easy solution. Even if it is $2 a gallon more!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Nord Sal

If the fuel is solely to run your heater, use No. 1 fuel oil instead of No. 2 (diesel). This will eliminate any potential for gelling and your heater will run better.

Agreed, but it’s not available at the fuel pump. It’s an on-road (taxes) diesel pump. Then there is probably a fuel dock as well somewhere nearby that will supply commercial fishermen and water cops and stuff

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

This is an easy solution with no risky downsides. These heaters will run fine on pure kerosene, and it's recommended to run a gallon through every year or so to help clean out soot. So adding some kerosene is an easy solution. Even if it is $2 a gallon more!

$12 a gallon at the hardware store, but yes. An easy option. It’s added at 10% typically I’ve been reading, so not quite as bad as a 50/50 mix at that price point.

There has been a kerosene shortage

But, nothing is risky. It’s just a burner. Not an engine. So as long as I can get it to the burner and get it to burn cleanly, anything at all will burn, provided is viscous enough and the flashpoint/vapor point, etc isn’t too high.

If the flashpoint is too high, it burns too quickly making an awful sound. That’s what happens when you put straight gasoline through one of them. It’s a quick burn so each dose goes WHOOOF! Then another goes WOOOF! Over and over making for a very annoying heater and less heat.

It just has to burn slowly enough to keep a constant burn.

If I had more time I might consider changing the fuel delivery system so a very small stream of gasoline constantly sprayed out instead of metered splashes of diesel. The right tiny, continuous stream could burn smoothly and use my normal fuel (gasoline). Maybe next year

[Ardbeg]

My 2 cents worth. I have a Dickensen diesel heater on my boat. I put winter treatment in my fuel. I put it in before my last sail for the year and top up any fuel needed so that it gets a bit of a shake while sailing. In the winter, I will turn on heater to heat up enclosed cockpit during whisky/cigar sessions. SO what I noticed when using diesel heater in winter. The fuel line is tapped into the engine line near the tank. IE Bottom of tank. When using the bit of diesel I do in winter, the RACOR filter fills with crap from the tank. So now I just routinely replace the racor filter every spring. Also replace engine fuel filter with every oil change. I have 40 gal diesel tank and usually only use 3-4 gallons of fuel a year. I fill it every fall. My dock is only 150 yards from sailing so not much use of engine.