Diesel Gelling in Cold Weather

[Chotu]

The time to install my diesel heaters is getting close.

I got everything needed for an on deck installation, on the bridge deck, outdoors.

Keeping chemicals and stink out of the living area.

Living in the north is starting to come back to me. I’m starting to remember things.

One of those things is that diesel fuel gels pretty easily. Typically, a block heater is installed on a truck to make sure things stay liquid. Does anyone have any trouble with their diesel heater fuel lines gelling?

I guess most of them are inside the hull.

Are the treatments any good? Are they just snake oil? Do they actually keep it from gelling?

[rslifkin]

Diesel fuel from suppliers is generally blended to have a lower gel point during the fall and winter months, so buying diesel closer to winter will help the situation. I don't know which are the currently preferred options, but there are definitely effective anti-gel treatments out there. And even without those, I've known a few people to have diesel cars that sit outside without a block heater connected (which wouldn't heat the tank anyway) and have had no trouble with weather down to 0* or so.

[Chotu]

Ok. I just don’t want my heating system to gel up and fail when it’s -5 out and it’s needed the most so I’m trying to think ahead to any gotchas.

Good point about the tank. All those years using block heaters and the tank was never protected.

I can remember occasionally having the fuel line freeze up between the tank and the block heater however. Not on my vehicle, but on parents’ vehicles when I was a kid

[Stu Jackson]

I always thought block heaters were for the engine, not the fuel. i.e., the engine is the block, as in engine block.


Folks in Alaska would know about fuel gel. I don't recall hearing about it as an issue.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I always thought block heaters were for the engine, not the fuel. i.e., the engine is the block, as in engine block.


Folks in Alaska would know about fuel gel. I don't recall hearing about it as an issue.

Yes, they are for the block. But they keep the whole engine compartment warm enough that gelling doesn’t occur. They are primarily use so that you can start your diesel engine in very cold weather without the fuel system gelling up on you at the engine. Makes a nice convenient easy start instead of a struggle

I was secretly hoping some people from Alaska would pipe in here

[boatpoker]

10 years in Northern Ontario with a diesel VW Jetta, sometimes two weeks at 10F to 15F, never had a block heater, never had a gel problem.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

10 years in Northern Ontario with a diesel VW Jetta, sometimes two weeks at 10F to 15F, never had a block heater, never had a gel problem.

Good to know. Those are pretty cool cars. I like those diesel Jettas.

I wonder if the American fuel is formulated as well. All I can remember about gelling is from when I was younger. Decades and decades ago.

It was definitely a thing when I was a kid. Happened all the time. I want to make sure things work if it gets below 0F.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Good to know. Those are pretty cool cars. I like those diesel Jettas.

I wonder if the American fuel is formulated as well. All I can remember about gelling is from when I was younger. Decades and decades ago.

It was definitely a thing when I was a kid. Happened all the time. I want to make sure things work if it gets below 0F.

Call a VW dealer in Duluth MN and ask them ... not much different than Ontario.

[SailingHarmonie]

While fuel gelling is a thing, the fuel has to get very cold (0F) before it is an issue even with normal summer blend fuels. For a boat that is being kept in the water, the interior will not (usually) get that cold. If it does, you have alll kind of other plumbing related problems

And while a block heater is also a thing in very cold climates, it should be pretty obvious it does nothing to stop the fuel tank from getting cold. Block heaters are to keep the lube oil from getting so thick that the cold battery, with its reduced output, can't crank the engine. This is usually a concern at temperatures like -30F, way, way below what is ever an issue with a boat in the water.

Traditionally, the "home remedy" to keep fuel oil (or diesel fuel) from gelling was to admix it with kerosene. Typically a 50/50 mix is used to keep fuel oil liquid in outdoor tanks in Maine. This burns fine in any normal diesel engine.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

While fuel gelling is a thing, the fuel has to get very cold (0F) before it is an issue even with normal summer blend fuels. For a boat that is being kept in the water, the interior will not (usually) get that cold. If it does, you have alll kind of other plumbing related problems

And while a block heater is also a thing in very cold climates, it should be pretty obvious it does nothing to stop the fuel tank from getting cold. Block heaters are to keep the lube oil from getting so thick that the cold battery, with its reduced output, can't crank the engine. This is usually a concern at temperatures like -30F, way, way below what is ever an issue with a boat in the water.

Traditionally, the "home remedy" to keep fuel oil (or diesel fuel) from gelling was to admix it with kerosene. Typically a 50/50 mix is used to keep fuel oil liquid in outdoor tanks in Maine. This burns fine in any normal diesel engine.

Mentioned in the first post, it is an outdoor installation. It is not inside the hull.

We used to use block heaters on the diesel engines in our cars and trucks when I was a kid. Only on the diesels. It would allow you to start them without a huge cloud of smoke or gelled fuel systems, though occasionally, the fuel line from the tank to the engine would gel. I think the tank was fine usually because of the mass involved. That’s my guess anyway. The tank was never an issue.

And unfortunately, I’m not going to have access to kerosene. It is not sold where I am wintering over. I have heard about the 50-50 kerosene mix. It’s also good for the diesel heater to keep soot from building up apparently. Lots of benefits. But I don’t have kerosene access this winter. Are there other alternatives?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

And unfortunately, I’m not going to have access to kerosene. It is not sold where I am wintering over. I have heard about the 50-50 kerosene mix. It’s also good for the diesel heater to keep soot from building up apparently. Lots of benefits. But I don’t have kerosene access this winter. Are there other alternatives?

You can get kerosene anywhere there is an airport, flying club. It is A1-Jet fuel. Airports that use drums will often let you have it for free as once a drum is opened it has to be used within a certain time before it becomes unsuitable for planes. Kero is not quite as calorific as diesel but burns cleaner so if running a hydronic heater at lower than full power (continuously) it will not coke up as quickly. Worth adding some Isopropyl Alcohol if it gets really cold.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

You can get kerosene anywhere there is an airport, flying club. It is A1-Jet fuel. Airports that use drums will often let you have it for free as once a drum is opened it has to be used within a certain time before it becomes unsuitable for planes. Kero is not quite as calorific as diesel but burns cleaner so if running a hydronic heater at lower than full power (continuously) it will not coke up as quickly. Worth adding some Isopropyl Alcohol if it gets really cold.

An airport?? Lolol. I am on a boat. Lol

How am I going to get to an airport and get an open drum of fuel and bring it back to where I am wintering over? This is not even close to feasible.

There is no kerosene (or jet fuel) available. I have a single gas station that has diesel and an Ace hardware store as resources. I also have Amazon delivery. I need a realistic alternative.

With the alcohol, do you mean adding a little bit of that will work to keep it from gelling?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

An airport?? Lolol. I am on a boat. Not a plane. Lol

How am I going to get to an airport and get an open drum of fuel and bring it back to where I am wintering over? This is not even close to feasible.

There is no kerosene available. I need an alternative

There was I thinking your performance cat was a real flyer.


Transportation has to be a issue whatever, diesel, kero, cooking oil, in jerries?

[GordMay]

Grade no.2 diesel fuel, AKA "summer" diesel fuel, starts clouding at about –7°C [19°F], compared to grade no.1 fuel, which does the same at –40°C [-40°F].

“Winter” diesel fuel is a mix of grade no.1 and grade no.2 fuel. The main component of grade no.1 diesel is kerosene, and it doesn't contain paraffin. These two factors lower the cloud and pour points of the mix, thus preventing gelling, in cold temperatures.

Depending on the area you live in, the ratio of no.1 to no.2 diesel fuels, in the winter blend, can vary. For every 10 percent of No. 1 diesel added, the fuel cloud point [ofr #2] will drop by about 3 degrees F.
In milder winter climates, it's about 20% [#1] to 80% [#2].

Winter fuel is usually available from November, onward.

Winter fuel cannot prevent freezing of water, in the fuel; so an effective water separator is still required.

In Arctic climates, electric heaters in fuel tanks, and fuel filtres, are common.

The US Standard ASTM D 975 covers winter diesel.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

There was I thinking your performance cat was a real flyer.


Transportation has to be a issue whatever, diesel, kero, cooking oil, in jerries?

Definitely. OK. Let me explain my set up. That’s probably where we are missing each other.

I have a handtruck dolly. I have jerries. I have a gas station with diesel about 1/4 mile away I can walk to to fill up my jugs.

Other than that I have public transportation about 1.5 miles away, Amazon, walking and riding a bicycle.

I also have a hardware store a bit farther than the gas station.