Disposing of Solid Waste From a Dessicating Toilet

[wyb2]

Glad to see someone is still keeping this thread alive with his trolling. I’m a little embarrassed I engaged earlier, all the signs were there.

[smj]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Could those "negatives" be because of poor quality materials, or sub quality installation? Just asking.

No, just replying
From what I hear the odor can be somewhat controlled with a fresh water flush, not an option for me.
Having owned both systems for many years, the composter is far less work and maintenance, in my opinion of course.
In the years of owning a composter I’ve never frantically needed to find a pump out or bleed a little out of the tank so I can replenish, that’s the main positive for me.

[Sailorman Ed]

Franziska, Interesting head you have. Do you have any more details on its construction? I didn't see any on your web page. Very interesting cat BTW.
Ed

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

But this is all a distraction. Once past the Ick Factor that blots-out the sun in these discussions, the two biggest negatives are full-time use is really restricted to a couple people aboard. CH doesn't scale well. Relatedly, its odd for most guests. Serious concerns for many people.

Second drawback is possibility of insects which are fairly common. Hasn't happened to me......yet. I do have concerns though. Most of the loudest voices supporting Compost Heads are in very cool climates. You dont hear much from folks in tropical climates. I'm a bit wary and will update along the line.

Exactly. The natterers always insist on commedering the discussion, and we spend all the time dealing with childish issues. Meanwhile, there are some very real challenges that come with using these heads.

It’s interesting that you say most supporters are from northern climes. I certainly am, but I’m not sure how many more there are of us. A composter will work even better in warmer climates, but I bet the moisture balance is different.

Bugs… we’ve had two such events. The first happened when I had to leave the boat for a long period of time, and for some reason, the fan died. The second time it happened was when I pushed the main bin far too long, and ended up with a rather moist pile. A good cleaning got rid of them.

[Ween]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s interesting that you say most supporters are from northern climes. I certainly am, but I’m not sure how many more there are of us. A composter will work even better in warmer climates, but I bet the moisture balance is different.

We went from RI in late october and spent the winter in the exumas. we are now back in bristol RI then up to Maine for some "summer".

the trick in bahamas for getting the same coir longevity was to make sure it was bone dry before using. that meant even my technique of ~1liter of water for a full brick expansion needed the addition of a day out in the sun-heat to dry it out. then it would last our normal 3+weeks of constant use before it got too dense/wet/full to easily stir (airhead).

seems like here in RI in June with this year's S#!T weather and humidity we should follow the same recipe.

[Chotu]

I have only tried mine in northern climates. It has certainly worked on 100% humidity foggy days in Maine for months. So I don’t see why it would do any different on 100% humidity in the tropics. In fact I think it might work a little better because the heat would speed up some of the process.

I never had a problem with bugs. Not once. But I only used mine for about a year.

Other than that I tend to disagree. There are no real problems. Ha ha. It’s actually extremely convenient. It eliminates the problems, which is why many of us enjoy using them.

[JPA Cate]

It happens Jim and I are house-sitting now, and I know of a use for timber shavings, because they are used as bedding for our owners 4 hens. They dry the chicken poo, which makes keeping the laying area clean and fresh much nicer to do, and one just brushes excess shavings off the eggs. I'm sure our owners pay for it to someone, probably the Wooden Boat Guild, which supports the latter and is a worthy effort.

And as a PS, these might be the most pampered chooks in the world, but those babies are producing, and it's winter here.



Ann

[Wotname]

Long drop dunnies in rural Oz almost aways had sawdust or wood shavings alongside the squares of ripped up newspaper or old telephone directories or guvmint correspondence. A handful was chucked in when your business was finished.

Wikipedia has a lot of information about the subject in their pit latrines entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_latrine
The takeaway line is 'Pit latrines are a low-cost method of separating feces from people.'

Some interesting numbers - about 25% of the world's population use versions of the long drop and another 12% does not even access to any toilet of any sort. India was addressing the situation with their "No Toilet, No Bride" campaign or better put "No loo, No I do" https://blogs.worldbank.org/impactev...niv-stopnitzky

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Sailorman Ed

Franziska, Interesting head you have. Do you have any more details on its construction? I didn't see any on your web page. Very interesting cat BTW.
Ed

Nothing fancy really.

A seat, a separateing funnel underneath. Hard parts go into the bucket which has a hole for the funnel in its lid. There is also a non stop running computer fan pushing out any odours in the lid.

The fan exhaust is at the deck under the thermo solar panel.

The liquid side of the funnel goes with a short hose to 30l jerrycan.

That's all.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[MikeHoncho]

I just used my OGO for the first time last week on a 4 day trip with 3 adults. It was raining and very humid. I followed the video directions about adding water and got a poor idea of spraying the used TP with a little bit of water to get it to mix with the coir. Worked great for about two days then it was obvious there was too much moisture and it started to stink. The inner walls of the toilet was covered with condensation. I also learned that you can’t just break up the bricks of coir by has. They have to be prepared. For my next trip I’m preparing coir by adding 3 cups of hot water to a brick. Letting it soften, breaking it up then drying in the sun. It’s super fine and dry. I’m going to go with adding no water and placing the TP in a separate bin. The TP filled the auger bin faster than the other “deposits”

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Glad to see someone is still keeping this thread alive with his trolling. I’m a little embarrassed I engaged earlier, all the signs were there.

I’m not trolling… yes, I do pull some legs now and then and always call out what comes over as hypocritical etc. but I am genuinely making up my mind on our next heads and really trying to like CH. If I only say ooh and ahh then I do not learn anything about the negatives because fans do not volunteer that info.
By doing my posts, I have learned things that would not have come up otherwise:
- you need to carry a stock of coco coir
- you can get insect infestation
- claim of no smell is because smell is vented overboard with electric fan
etc., it is a rather long list.

I have not yet learned what diameter the vent is and how you prevent water coming in. I think you need a water separator like a dorade vent…

Originally Posted by smj

No, just replying
From what I hear the odor can be somewhat controlled with a fresh water flush, not an option for me.
Having owned both systems for many years, the composter is far less work and maintenance, in my opinion of course.
In the years of owning a composter I’ve never frantically needed to find a pump out or bleed a little out of the tank so I can replenish, that’s the main positive for me.

I can see how people have struggled with the old marine toilets that break down, get clogged etc. etc. I have seen this often and to be honest, our boat came with toilets from that category and one of the first jobs I had was overhauling them to stop the leaks. I agree, it’s horrible.
But early 2005 I installed new Raritan Atlantis fresh water flush toilets and for the next 15 years I have had zero maintenance, zero repairs, zero smells, just using the toilets daily.
In 2020 I noticed some back flush and replaced the joker valve. This was when I noticed a crack in the plastic transparent lid of the macerator pump, followed by finding a worn macerator impeller. Of course I had spares so I replaced those, but I also noticed other plastics are getting brittle. I think I should not have put money into those spares and simply replace the toilets when there is a good special on these with Defender.

So now I am on borrowed time with 18-year old heads that I expect to fail before they get to the 20 years age.

I find the DIY head posted by Franziska a much better setup than any of the self contained solutions on the market. Much better looking as well. But it isn’t clear to me where that fan is blowing and it doesn’t look like it’s helping to dry the poop compartment. Also the funnel and bucket part wasn’t shown and the other picture posted makes me cringe with the thought that something like that is hidden inside.

At the same time I have been unable to come up with better ideas for holding tanks other than custom shaped and fail safe. But our standard commercial tank with outlet on the bottom never failed and must be 30 years old by now, so I wonder what is causing all the problems people report with them.

It is threads like these that make all that info come out eventually, even when fans of either system don’t like it when their system’s negatives are discussed.

What I have been trying to say for a while but what is mostly pushed to the background by other, apparently more interesting points, is that there is more choice than fans of CH realize. They came from the old heads that clog and stink and are horrible in every possible way (I agree) and found their solution in a CH. But there is a new generation of wet heads that also decisively overcomes those problems and in discussions like this one should not be dismissed as the old stinky toilet. So I want to compare the best of composting heads to the best of wet heads. Vacuflush didn’t even enter the thread yet.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I’m not trolling… yes, I do pull some legs now and then and always call out what comes over as hypocritical etc. but I am genuinely making up my mind on our next heads and really trying to like CH. If I only say ooh and ahh then I do not learn anything about the negatives because fans do not volunteer that info.

By doing my posts, I have learned things that would not have come up otherwise:

- you need to carry a stock of coco coir

- you can get insect infestation

- claim of no smell is because smell is vented overboard with electric fan

etc., it is a rather long list.



I have not yet learned what diameter the vent is and how you prevent water coming in. I think you need a water separator like a dorade vent…







I can see how people have struggled with the old marine toilets that break down, get clogged etc. etc. I have seen this often and to be honest, our boat came with toilets from that category and one of the first jobs I had was overhauling them to stop the leaks. I agree, it’s horrible.

But early 2005 I installed new Raritan Atlantis fresh water flush toilets and for the next 15 years I have had zero maintenance, zero repairs, zero smells, just using the toilets daily.

In 2020 I noticed some back flush and replaced the joker valve. This was when I noticed a crack in the plastic transparent lid of the macerator pump, followed by finding a worn macerator impeller. Of course I had spares so I replaced those, but I also noticed other plastics are getting brittle. I think I should not have put money into those spares and simply replace the toilets when there is a good special on these with Defender.



So now I am on borrowed time with 18-year old heads that I expect to fail before they get to the 20 years age.



I find the DIY head posted by Franziska a much better setup than any of the self contained solutions on the market. Much better looking as well. But it isn’t clear to me where that fan is blowing and it doesn’t look like it’s helping to dry the poop compartment. Also the funnel and bucket part wasn’t shown and the other picture posted makes me cringe with the thought that something like that is hidden inside.



At the same time I have been unable to come up with better ideas for holding tanks other than custom shaped and fail safe. But our standard commercial tank with outlet on the bottom never failed and must be 30 years old by now, so I wonder what is causing all the problems people report with them.



It is threads like these that make all that info come out eventually, even when fans of either system don’t like it when their system’s negatives are discussed.



What I have been trying to say for a while but what is mostly pushed to the background by other, apparently more interesting points, is that there is more choice than fans of CH realize. They came from the old heads that clog and stink and are horrible in every possible way (I agree) and found their solution in a CH. But there is a new generation of wet heads that also decisively overcomes those problems and in discussions like this one should not be dismissed as the old stinky toilet. So I want to compare the best of composting heads to the best of wet heads. Vacuflush didn’t even enter the thread yet.

So to the vent. It's a standart 12v computer fan and runs all the time.
120mm diameter if I recall correctly.
It draws away any odours.
Currently 34 degrees here in Spain. Nothing to smell.
It's a separating toilet, we do not aim to compost.
Never had an insect problem due to the head.

If on a very very rare occasion the content of the bucket gets to wet, we empty it a bit earlier. Problem solved.

The fan pushes it via a 100mm duct to the deck where it terminates in a closable mushroom vent with fly screen.

We never had water getting to it though, as the solar water heater protects it too.

What drew me to a seperating toilet was that the previous one was pumped overboard which is not allowed in the Dutch Waddenzee where I was at the time.
Additionally it was it's extreme simplicity in building it & using it, as well as extremely low cost and failproofness.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Franziska

So to the vent. It's a standart 12v computer fan and runs all the time.
120mm diameter if I recall correctly.
It draws away any odours.
Currently 34 degrees here in Spain. Nothing to smell.
It's a separating toilet, we do not aim to compost.
Never had an insect problem due to the head.

If on a very very rare occasion the content of the bucket gets to wet, we empty it a bit earlier. Problem solved.

The fan pushes it via a 100mm duct to the deck where it terminates in a closable mushroom vent with fly screen.

We never had water getting to it though, as the solar water heater protects it too.

What drew me to a seperating toilet was that the previous one was pumped overboard which is not allowed in the Dutch Waddenzee where I was at the time.
Additionally it was it's extreme simplicity in building it & using it, as well as extremely low cost and failproofness. Attachment 277368

More questions because you have such a great design and execution.

Did you buy or build the separator?

It looks very professional and nice.

And Jedi: I agree it is a difficult problem to solve. I’ve tried them all, including vacuuflush.

With a catamaran, I believe the absolute best option is simply a hole in the bridge deck with a toilet seat and plug to close it. No tank. No compost. I’ve only seen one of these before. Debatable about legality. Reliability 100%. Stink factor 0, ick factor 0. Maintenance 0.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I’m not trolling… yes, I do pull some legs now and then and always call out what comes over as hypocritical etc. but I am genuinely making up my mind on our next heads and really trying to like CH. If I only say ooh and ahh then I do not learn anything about the negatives because fans do not volunteer that info.

By doing my posts, I have learned things that would not have come up otherwise:

- you need to carry a stock of coco coir

- you can get insect infestation

- claim of no smell is because smell is vented overboard with electric fan

etc., it is a rather long list.



I have not yet learned what diameter the vent is and how you prevent water coming in. I think you need a water separator like a dorade vent…







I can see how people have struggled with the old marine toilets that break down, get clogged etc. etc. I have seen this often and to be honest, our boat came with toilets from that category and one of the first jobs I had was overhauling them to stop the leaks. I agree, it’s horrible.

But early 2005 I installed new Raritan Atlantis fresh water flush toilets and for the next 15 years I have had zero maintenance, zero repairs, zero smells, just using the toilets daily.

In 2020 I noticed some back flush and replaced the joker valve. This was when I noticed a crack in the plastic transparent lid of the macerator pump, followed by finding a worn macerator impeller. Of course I had spares so I replaced those, but I also noticed other plastics are getting brittle. I think I should not have put money into those spares and simply replace the toilets when there is a good special on these with Defender.



So now I am on borrowed time with 18-year old heads that I expect to fail before they get to the 20 years age.



I find the DIY head posted by Franziska a much better setup than any of the self contained solutions on the market. Much better looking as well. But it isn’t clear to me where that fan is blowing and it doesn’t look like it’s helping to dry the poop compartment. Also the funnel and bucket part wasn’t shown and the other picture posted makes me cringe with the thought that something like that is hidden inside.



At the same time I have been unable to come up with better ideas for holding tanks other than custom shaped and fail safe. But our standard commercial tank with outlet on the bottom never failed and must be 30 years old by now, so I wonder what is causing all the problems people report with them.



It is threads like these that make all that info come out eventually, even when fans of either system don’t like it when their system’s negatives are discussed.



What I have been trying to say for a while but what is mostly pushed to the background by other, apparently more interesting points, is that there is more choice than fans of CH realize. They came from the old heads that clog and stink and are horrible in every possible way (I agree) and found their solution in a CH. But there is a new generation of wet heads that also decisively overcomes those problems and in discussions like this one should not be dismissed as the old stinky toilet. So I want to compare the best of composting heads to the best of wet heads. Vacuflush didn’t even enter the thread yet.

I'll take you at your word that you are indeed open to options.

I agree with you that CH proponents enthusiastically extol benefits and lax attention to the downsides. Upthread, I think I've tried to be forthcoming with the negatives. Surprisingly, to me, it does not smell like poop - even when emptying. I do find emptying the chamber a chore. It's not offensive, but not a high point of the day. My biggest long-term worry is if we start having more guests aboard. As the Ogo owner mentioned a couple of posts above, the system does not scale well. The best setup would be a 2-head boat with one being CH.

For me, it wasn't any single component that drove me away from a traditional head system. There are quite a few points of failure - hose, macerator, vent, Y-valve, etc. When you try to be legal, finding an operational pump-out isn't always easy. On some forums, the answer to any complaints about a head system is always some form of "you're not doing it right," explaining if it breaks/smells. It's my fault. I simply gave up after a long story holding tank/maceration failure 3 days before leaving on a 500nm steam down the Pacific Coast with two other people onboard. Difficult situation on a 1-head boat.

I personally believe a churn is important. I suppose a long wooden spoon could work, but not an elegant solution. However, I know of one Nature's Head owner who removed the churn to make emptying the chamber easier so he could use a plastic bag liner.

I did have to think through where to mount the vent hose (1.5"). Side deck on my trawler has a step so I have a vertical surface, but it's not perfect. A standard sailboat would be more challenging. I believe the vent is important but many users report it being optional. I cannot imagine that being true.

So that's my full opinion. My experience with holding tank systems over 30 years was a C-. Nature's Head gets a B-.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Chotu

More questions because you have such a great design and execution.

Did you buy or build the separator?

It looks very professional and nice.

And Jedi: I agree it is a difficult problem to solve. I’ve tried them all, including vacuuflush.

With a catamaran, I believe the absolute best option is simply a hole in the bridge deck with a toilet seat and plug to close it. No tank. No compost. I’ve only seen one of these before. Debatable about legality. Reliability 100%. Stink factor 0, ick factor 0. Maintenance 0.

I bought it, because we were a little under time pressure, but it should be easy to make a wooden plug and slap one together from fiberglass.

On your bridgedeck direct version I'd perhaps add a hinged flap, or you might get a wet bum in waves [emoji6]
I like the idea though.