Eberspacher vs Planar diesel air heaters.

[Kyoko]

Hi Fiona
I got a chinese "rip-off" four years ago,(5kvh) still working with no problem.
Have had the German orignal before (E) and had a lot of problem with overheating, problably due to long ducting to four cabins, not so with the current one.
As I live i the northern hemisphere (baltic) I am dependant on a functional heater.
I figured I could by 4 of these if it was of low quality, so far that had not been the case. In my opinion go for it. For the price you pay in this case I would not worry about the warranty
Just my opinion

[FionaJC]

It's a D4W not a D4. I took it to a local dealer as it would fire run for a while and die. They said it was too old and could be de carbonned. I took it apart and brusged it our only its double folded inside and you can't get round the corner. Stuffed a brush in and wiggled and shook. Burner ran again. I now run paraffin through it once a month and it's been OK but the exhaust is hot ad the air is warm. That's why I'm looking again.

[FionaJC]

But is the Planar from China the same as the Planar from russia one and the same unit?

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by FionaJC

I had a UK caravan client from whom I bought a van. It had a gas Truma heater which was brilliant but they only do gas ones.

Truma does have diesel heaters - they use Eberspacher burner designs.

https://www.truma.com/int/en/product...-combi-d6.html

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Emouchet

I think Planar, Eberspacher, Airtronic, Espar, Wesbato Air Top are actually all the same unit.

They are just resold under different name, depending on countries and market.

They look too similar to me to be different product.

Now, you may need to look carefully on what's on the table. Vehicle kit are usually not marine rated. Those typically does not include stainless steel parts, rather they use cheaper material because their working environment is not as hard as it can be on a boat.

They are not all the same. For example the Planar is a russian built copy of the Espar (Eberspacher).

Vehicle units are usually limited to a very short exhaust. And all of the above are fairly noisy. None of the above were designed for marine use to start with, but vehicles.

Wallas is the only currently available diesel heater I know of that has been designed for marine use from the beginning. Quiet operation was part of the design focus - no other heater is as quiet.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Emouchet

I think Planar, Eberspacher, Airtronic, Espar, Wesbato Air Top are actually all the same unit.

They are just resold under different name, depending on countries and market.

They look too similar to me to be different product.

Wrong except for Eberspacher shortens to Espar for English markets. I'm sure ideas stolen but lots of real competition.

Webasto and E are the top quality makers.

Planar is a Russian knockoff, the Chinese haven't established any branding.

[newhaul]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000W-Air-d...BZ8p5L&vxp=mtr
The Chinese produce the planar
And also an unbranded aluminum cased unit
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5KW-Diesel-...JZ9-nB&vxp=mtr

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wrong except for Eberspacher shortens to Espar for English markets. I'm sure ideas stolen but lots of real competition.

Webasto and E are the top quality makers.

Planar is a Russian knockoff, the Chinese haven't established any branding.

If by "knockoff", you mean "works on the same principle and looks sort of similar", than you can say this about the Russian Planars. But Teplostar, which manufactures the Planars, is a large company with over 1000 employees and with serious R&D and research facilities. Their products are not backyard copies of anything. They make several hundred thousand units a year.

Now the Chinese do a straight copy of the Eberspacher air heaters; I believe it's called a "Belief".

I considered replacing my old Eberspacher with a new Planar myself, but the Planar hydronic heaters won't fit my boat -- they are much bigger and heavier than the Ebers. The Planar 10kW model, ironically called "Mini", is a massive beast weighing 16kg (!!). My 10kW Eber is a fraction of the size and weighs only 6kg. So I keep rebuilding it over and over again

I was attracted to the Planar because even if it turned out to be no more reliable than the Eber, the parts cost a fraction of the very expensive Eber parts.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Vehicle units are usually limited to a very short exhaust. And all of the above are fairly noisy. None of the above were designed for marine use to start with, but vehicles.

I fitted a diesel Webasto vehicle heater (ST2000) because it was considerably cheaper even after buying the extra bit you need to install it in a yacht. The main items are the exhaust through hull and the stainless steel mounting plate. Both came from Turkey and whilst copies are very well made. The rest is identical to a marine kit. In use I don't find them particularly noisy even without the extra exhaust silencer which we didn't bother with. Indeed the noisiest item is the fuel pump which I think is a solenoid and really needs mounting on a soft rubber mount when I get around TUIT.

If I was doing it again I would use a Webasto Thermo water system as they are cheap enough refurbished on UK e bay so that we have hot water in addition to heat.

Pete

[CaptTom]

I don't consider my Planar noisy. Maybe we need to calibrate our different definitions of noise.

I propose this scale for interior noise: (1) Can't hear it at all, through (10) Competes with the fog horn. On this scale, (5) would be an air conditioner.

Outside the cabin it's installed in, mine is a (1). In my berth, next to the hot air vent and a few feet from the unit behind a cabinet, it's probably a 3-4. Not as loud as my air conditioner vent, which is in a comparable location on the other side of the cabin.

Outside the boat the exhaust is also a (1).

As mentioned, the clicking of the fuel pump is probably the most annoying part, but that's easily rectified with proper mounting.

I know some are more sensitive to sounds than others. By some standards, if you can hear something at all it's intolerable. Others find it reassuring to be able to hear things working. I'm in the latter camp. Frankly, I suspect anything can keep you awake if you let it get to you. Some folks just need to learn to relax and not let things annoy them.

[adkl]

My experience of boat water/radiator heating heaters may well apply to air heaters.

Purchased a Planar heater kit - model Binar 5S diesel fueled from UK agent in September 2017 for £635 delivered.

The kit was very complete other than the exhaust skin fitting. Was impressed with the quality and it worked straight away after fitting. I note that the fuel dosing pump is not Russian and the separate water pump is in fact manufactured by Boch.

So far the unit has worked perfectly. The tiny programming unit took some working out!

This is in stark contrast to the re-conditioned Webasto Thermo Top C I purchased from Ebay. It was fine for 7 weeks only and then with much fiddling. Took it to a Webasto agent and was told it was from a BMW car and they could not economically sort it out so I decided to cut my losses. A new Webasto Thermo Top C would have been over £1,100 plus delivery.

Trust that this information is helpful.

[john61ct]

I was not passing judgement on Planar build quality, but it's pretty obvious their design is "inspired by" Eberspacher's.

Originally Posted by newhaul

The Chinese produce the planar

This is false.

If you want an authentic product and decent support and repairs, deal with manufacturer authorized distribution channels, ideally local to you.

eBay and Amazon resellers very often are dishonest and use others' established brands to put their product in your search results.

But if you do the proper research, identify the proper sellers, then you can purchase through their online store if you want the additional buyer protection.

But just ordering at random from a Chinese source online seems like a real roll of the dice to me. But for eBay, get them to make a direct false claim in their messaging with you, and you can easily get a full refund, they have to pay return shipping too.

Give you a lot of leverage 8-)

[Boatwright]

We love our Espar. After correcting some incorrect installation items from the previous owner we find it always reliable, completely automatic with efficient heat exchange which results in a warm, not hot exhaust, and it has multiple safety interlocks on the burner controls.

It puts out good heat, extending our cruising season into the fall and allowing work on our 35' sloop's interior on the coldest winter days here in northern Michigan. I have several ongoing projects I'll be working on between Xmas and New Year's. With a dead cold boat on a 20 deg day, my coat is off after a half hour and my sweater 15 min later.

I don't know anything about the Russian and Chinese knock-offs. The burner safety systems (if any) are the first thing I would compare.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I was not passing judgement on Planar build quality, but it's pretty obvious their design is "inspired by" Eberspacher's.


This is false.

If you want an authentic product and decent support and repairs, deal with manufacturer authorized distribution channels, ideally local to you.

eBay and Amazon resellers very often are dishonest and use others' established brands to put their product in your search results.

But if you do the proper research, identify the proper sellers, then you can purchase through their online store if you want the additional buyer protection.

But just ordering at random from a Chinese source online seems like a real roll of the dice to me. But for eBay, get them to make a direct false claim in their messaging with you, and you can easily get a full refund, they have to pay return shipping too.

Give you a lot of leverage 8-)

paying with PayPal affords even more protections . Heck you can usually get your money back even with nothing wrong, and sometimes not even return the "defective" product.

[mitiempo]

This heater is a Swedish design manufactured in China.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/refo...r-cabin-heater