Holding Tank

[kennys]

Hi; I have a 35ft sailboat that I am upgrading to hopefully take a fairly long trip. One of the challenges with the boat has always been the small holding tank and no room to install a larger one. I am almost finished a creative solution of using 3-5 gallon sealed pails that where previously used to carry chlorine. I set it up with compression fittings for hooking it up the the hose from the toilet and the vent line. I can change the pails as they become full.
I designed a secure method of storing them and a system to have them pumped out when at a pump out station. It also gives me the ability to empty them in an outhouse or onshore toilet if I cant get to a pump out facility. It also gives me the option to thoroughly rinse them out to cut down on odour. I was really excited about the system until I read that the coast guard regulations require you to have a coast guard approves septic system. I realize no one will have a bullet proof answer on this but has anyone had their sanitation systems checked by the coast guard. How much of a gamble is it to go forward with my system. I hate to go back to something that may be approved but not practicle. Thanks Ken

[Turtle Blues]

CG Inspection? - Yes, usually concerned with proper securing/ locking of diverter valves and overboard discharge. But I assume your setup will be questioned due to it's mobility.

Or a survey inspection for insurance purposes.
There are dry toilets, a lot of choices in poly tanks, etc.
Sorry to be blunt but You have probably spent what it would have cost to do it right.

[JoeRobertJr]

From a technical standpoint, I don't see how buckets of sewage stored in a way that does not allow overboard discharge would be any different than a holding tank or the pee jug and poop bin of a desiccating toilet. So, you might be OK with the CG.

I'd be more concerned about the odor created by those buckets of stored sewage and the risk of an internal spill, such as when the contents heat up and expand, popping the lids off, but that is not what you asked about. Maybe you have the expansion/venting thing figured out.

Is your "fairly long trip" mostly within a 3-mile limit of shore?

[Mike OReilly]

Up our way (Canada) I've never even heard of someone being inspected on poop-violation suspicions. I'm sure it has happens -- very occasionally; probably when an officer has been given grounds to suspect something is amiss. I do read about a lot of poop enforcement south of the border (USA), so I'd be careful down that way, but it doesn't seem to be much of a thing in Canada.

Your system probably works, but you seem to have taken a rather circuitous way to arrive at a solution. A composting head would answer all your challenges, be waaaay simpler, much safer, and also be fully legal.

[sailingharry]

There is no such thing as a Coast Guard approved holding tank system. The only requirement is that it not discharge overboard. Here in the us, that is validated by dropping a dye tablet in the toilet and flushing it.

A holding tank of any style is called a type 3. Read what EPA says about them here.
https://www.epa.gov/vessels-marinas-...n-devices-msds

At least in the US, your bucket system is 100% legal. Perhaps undesirable, but legal.

[Turtle Blues]

Umm, actually there is:
Don't know of any pail carrying a certification.


From USCG MSD

Vessel Operators: No person may operate any Vessel having an installed toilet facility unless it is equipped with an installed and operable MSD of a type approved by the U.S. Coast Guard to meet the requirements of 33 CFR Part 159.
Approved MSDs: There are three different types of MSDs that can be certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to meet the requirements in 33 CFR Part 159, each having its own design, certification, and discharge criteria. For more information see 33 CFR 159.53.

• Type I is a flow through discharge device that produces effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 1,000 per 100 milliliters and no visible floating solids. This type of device is typically a physical/chemical based system that relies on maceration and chlorination. Type I MSDs are issued a Certificate of Approval.
• Type II is a flow through discharge device that produces effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 200 per 100 milliliters and suspended solids not greater than 150 milligrams per liter. This type of device is typically a biological or aerobic digestion based system.
• Type III is a device that prevents the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage. This type of device is typically a holding tank and may include other types of technology including incineration, recirculation, and composting.

From CFR 33


159.117 Chemical resistance test.

(a) In each case where the recognized facility doubts the ability of a material to withstand exposure to the substances listed in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section a sample of the material must be tested.

(b) A sample referred to in paragraph (a) of this section must be partially submerged in each of the following substances for 100 hours at an ambient temperature of 22 °C.
(1) Sewage.

(2) Any disinfectant that is required in the operation of the device.

(3) Any chemical compound in solid, liquid or gaseous form, used, emitted or produced in the operation of the device.

(4) Fresh or salt (3.5 percent Sodium Chloride) flush water.

(5) Toilet bowl cleaners.

(6) Engine Oil (SAE/30).

(7) Ethylene Glycol.

(8) Detergents (household and bilge cleaning type).


(c) A sample of the material must be doused 20 times, with a 1 hour drying period between dousings, in each of the following substances:
(1) Gasoline.

(2) Diesel fuel.

(3) Mineral spirits.

(4) Turpentine.

(5) Methyl alcohol.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Turtle Blues

Umm, actually there is:
Don't know of any pail carrying a certification.

It sounds like a pail would qualify as a Type III MSD.

Type III is a device that prevents the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage. This type of device is typically a holding tank and may include other types of technology including incineration, recirculation, and composting.

My understanding is that the USCG doesn't certify or approve specific heads. They just confirm that the head meets the qualifications that you've posted. Seems to me, a pail would qualify as a holding tank.

The same goes in Canada, except I don't think the CCG are the ones checking. That would be the police.

The OP lists his location as "Haliburton, ON" which I assume is Ontario -- Canada.

[Kelkara]

Ontario also has provincial laws that portable toilets are not allowed, and the only means of removing toilet waste from the boat shall be via a shoreside pump-out. I don't know which side of these rules your removable bucket system may be.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by kennys

I am almost finished a creative solution of using 3-5 gallon sealed pails that

I am going to stay out of the battle or right and wrong here, but will say I would do almost anything other than this nasty sounding "solution"

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by kennys

but has anyone had their sanitation systems checked by the coast guard. How much of a gamble is it to go forward with my system. I hate to go back to something that may be approved but not practicle. Thanks Ken

Since you are in Haliburton, Ontario, I'll assume you are cruising Canadian waters. CCG don't get involved in this at all and do not inspect pleasure craft. If you have found something different, please post a link.
I have studied this issue in the Great Lakes since the sewage discharge rules in the Canada Shipping Act were repealed in 2007. I know of no CCG or Transport Canada rules prohibiting your plans... a negative is difficult to prove.

There is a law in Ontario concerning this issue but I know of no organization policing it.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulati...leasure%20boat.

The International Joint Commission of the Great Lakes also has a few words on the issue.
https://ijc.org/en/who/mission/glwqa/annex5

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by kennys

Hi; I have a 35ft sailboat that I am upgrading to hopefully take a fairly long trip. One of the challenges with the boat has always been the small holding tank and no room to install a larger one.

Fairly long trip? No pump-out stations anywhere along the way?

If the fittings on your current holding tank are on the side, you might be able to slightly increase capacity by switching to top-mounted fittings -- with dip tubes as necessary.

-Chris

[kennys]

Originally Posted by Turtle Blues

CG Inspection? - Yes, usually concerned with proper securing/ locking of diverter valves and overboard discharge. But I assume your setup will be questioned due to it's mobility.

Or a survey inspection for insurance purposes.
There are dry toilets, a lot of choices in poly tanks, etc.
Sorry to be blunt but You have probably spent what it would have cost to do it right.

Thanks. It was done right by government standards and would work if I lived at a marina were I could pump out every other day. Unfortunately I would like to travel were I cant pump out every other day which means I have to change it.
I dont have room to put a larger tank. If i go with the right way I just have to not use the toilet after two days. Not really an option.

[kennys]

[QUOTE=ranger58sb;3818758]Fairly long trip? No pump-out stations anywhere along the way?


Thanks Chris. I plan on travelling for about 8 months sometimes in some areas that wont have marinas. My current tank fills in about 2-3 days. The tank has the fittings on the end and the tank lies flat. I dont have room to turn it on its end and use dip tubes. I will remember your suggestion though if I find a different shape tank that might work with dip tubes
Ken

[Renegde_Sailor]

On my boat I constructed a fiberglass holding tank that went behind the vanity cabinet in my head, it is a tall skinny tank that is up against the hull, and it is completely above the waterline so I can actually just kick a valve open and drain it overboard if need be.

You can build a custom tank by cutting pieces of door skin to fit in the space, filleting the corners with total fair, then epoxying the wood with a few layers making it smooth, then waxing it up and laying up a tank in it, then breaking away the door skin, that is what I did and it worked perfectly.

[kennys]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Since you are in Haliburton, Ontario, I'll assume you are cruising Canadian waters. CCG don't get involved in this at all and do not inspect pleasure craft. If you have found something different, please post a link.
I have studied this issue in the Great Lakes since the sewage discharge rules in the Canada Shipping Act were repealed in 2007. I know of no CCG or Transport Canada rules prohibiting your plans... a negative is difficult to prove.

There is a law in Ontario concerning this issue but I know of no organization policing it.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulati...leasure%20boat.

The International Joint Commission of the Great Lakes also has a few words on the issue.
https://ijc.org/en/who/mission/glwqa/annex5

Thank you. I am hoping to travel into the US. In the one article you provided it say the container holding the waste cant be portable. My design would make them portable so if I had access to a outhouse or toilet I could dump them. I can see were they dont want someone dumping in the water but that is certainly not my intention.