Holding tank refit legality

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

Having as padlock is meaningless. Is the key on a nail next to the lock, in the tool box, or on the captain's keychain? The padlock, if a key is available, does not disable the valve. It's doubtful that hiding the key would convince the marine patrol that the valve is disabled.

A few years ago I asked law enforcement to seal it. The officer ran a seal wire (the type used for evidence) through the valve holes, attached a tag indicating the date sealed, then crimped a lead seal onto it. There is no way to move the valve to allow overboard pumping without breaking the seal. A marine patrol of a different state checked the boat a year or two after the seal was applied and it was accepted. You may have to shop around to find a law enforcement agency to do this as most probably do not offer this service.

But you can cut the seal, pump the sewage into the waterway and then return the valve to the "off" position. Nobody will know what you did and nobody will know that there had been a seal on it.

The "seal" accomplishes nothing.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For thru hulls and Y valves, either ziptie the handle so it can't be opened or remove the handle with the valve in the closed or tank position and you should be good to go.

Basically, if it takes multiple deliberate actions to cause a discharge, then you're in good shape, as you're clearly showing intent to comply with the rules.

Yep, it as simple as that.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by rwidman

But you can cut the seal, pump the sewage into the waterway and then return the valve to the "off" position. Nobody will know what you did and nobody will know that there had been a seal on it.



The "seal" accomplishes nothing.

I beg to differ
With the seal gone it exactly like no seal
With the seal intact it appears at least one Leo accepted it as closed since the date on the seal

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by rwidman

But you can cut the seal, pump the sewage into the waterway and then return the valve to the "off" position. Nobody will know what you did and nobody will know that there had been a seal on it.

The "seal" accomplishes nothing.

Except meet the federal regulations. That's all that really matters. If you intend to illegally dump, you'll find a way seal or not. If are not illegally dumping, all you have to do is comply with the reg.
On my old boat where they disconnected the plumbing and plugged the through hull, there was no question that the boat was in compliance. But a simple zip tie would have been just as legal.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

I beg to differ
With the seal gone it exactly like no seal
With the seal intact it appears at least one Leo accepted it as closed since the date on the seal

No seal is required or expected. You can simply wire tie the valve n the closed position or close the valve and remove the handle and either will meet the requirements.

The US government has not yet mandated that the ability to pump your sewage overboard be rendered permanently inoperative.

Let's hope this doesn't cross their minds.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

Except meet the federal regulations. That's all that really matters. If you intend to illegally dump, you'll find a way seal or not. If are not illegally dumping, all you have to do is comply with the reg.
On my old boat where they disconnected the plumbing and plugged the through hull, there was no question that the boat was in compliance. But a simple zip tie would have been just as legal.

But if you go three miles off shore (in most of the USA coast), dumping sewage is perfectly legal.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

I beg to differ
With the seal gone it exactly like no seal
With the seal intact it appears at least one Leo accepted it as closed since the date on the seal

Apparently you want the seal to force you not to dump even though you desperately want to. I'm sorry, but if that's the case you'll find a way to do it seal or no.
And the LEO's would find a zip tie, removed handle, etc just as acceptable because that is what the regulation says. Unless there's some local rule or ordinance in play, they have no authority to go further than that.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by FuneSF

I was boarded by the Coast Guard this year for a safety check in the Puget Sound. When it came to the discharge check, they were satisfied with only the Y valve being zip tied.

^^^This.


It's been my experience from San Francisco to the San Juans to BC. No need for padlocks. At all.

[CaptTom]

You don't need to hook up the toilet to pump directly overboard. You can have it always pump to a holding tank. Then, from the tank you can install the option to pump overboard through a macerator, or up to a deck fitting for pump-out.

This gives you a few advantages. First of all, no need for a Y valve. You can locate the macerator above the tank so you can work on or replace it without emptying the tank. You can secure it by using a key switch to run the macerator instead of a push button. No reaching down into the bilge to put wire ties on valves.

The point is, there are other options. Figure out what works best for you.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

You don't need to hook up the toilet to pump directly overboard. You can have it always pump to a holding tank. Then, from the tank you can install the option to pump overboard through a macerator, or up to a deck fitting for pump-out.

This gives you a few advantages. First of all, no need for a Y valve. You can locate the macerator above the tank so you can work on or replace it without emptying the tank. You can secure it by using a key switch to run the macerator instead of a push button. No reaching down into the bilge to put wire ties on valves.

The point is, there are other options. Figure out what works best for you.

This is how we operate our boat. As built, it has a Y valve going to a dedicated through hull. I don't think I've even tested that route, let alone used it.
When doing distance coastal cruising, which is what we do, we are lined up to the holding tank 24/7. Every day or three, while doing an offshore transit, we flip open the discharge through hull (which isn't zip tied because it doesn't need to be), turn on the breaker to the macerator, stick the key in the switch, and activate it. Easy peasy.
The key switch is a simple $15 Amazon battery disconnect, and the key hangs on a hook at the nav station. It is mounted in such a fashion that the floorboard won't go in place with the key in place, to keep me from getting lazy.
This system is legal, and that's good. But more important, it makes it super easy for us to not discharge in harbors, while also making it super easy to discharge on transit. And when you cruise where pumpouts are hundreds of miles apart, it is both practical and morally acceptable.

[rslifkin]

My boat is plumbed that way as well. Both heads feed directly to the tank. There's a macerator for overboard discharge from the tank. Normally we keep the macerator through hull ziptied closed and the macerator breaker off. The switch to activate the macerator is in a third location, so it's legally a solid setup.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

Having as padlock is meaningless. Is the key on a nail next to the lock, in the tool box, or on the captain's keychain? The padlock, if a key is available, does not disable the valve. It's doubtful that hiding the key would convince the marine patrol that the valve is disabled.



A few years ago I asked law enforcement to seal it. The officer ran a seal wire (the type used for evidence) through the valve holes, attached a tag indicating the date sealed, then crimped a lead seal onto it. There is no way to move the valve to allow overboard pumping without breaking the seal. A marine patrol of a different state checked the boat a year or two after the seal was applied and it was accepted. You may have to shop around to find a law enforcement agency to do this as most probably do not offer this service.

I assume you don’t plan to go offshore? How do you exercise your valve? If you don’t move it for more than a season or two, I doubt it will ever move without disassembly and service.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

My boat is plumbed that way as well. Both heads feed directly to the tank. There's a macerator for overboard discharge from the tank. Normally we keep the macerator through hull ziptied closed and the macerator breaker off. The switch to activate the macerator is in a third location, so it's legally a solid setup.

Even this may be overkill. The last new boat I bought (back in 2003) had the macerator "secured" by requiring you to simultaneously press two momentary-contact switches underneath the dashboard at the helm.

I'm not a lawyer, but I assume the manufacturer (production boat) had lawyers, and they approved this setup.

And it makes sense. Nobody but the operator at the helm could access the switches. There was no way to accidently turn on the macerator.

That boat was also where I learned the trick of putting the macerator on top of the tank. No mess to repair or replace it, even if the tank is full. No flexible hoses full of waste all the time.

I even re-did my current boat with a similar system, although I use a key switch near the tank instead of two switches at the helm. I'd rather be there when emptying so I know when I'm done.

[Kettlewell]

I too plumbed my head to always discharge into the holding tank. In my experience Y valves are to be avoided if at all possible. They are prone to failure. Also, it is safer to not have the possibility of leaving the overboard seacock open--many boats have sunk when water backed up through the head. Also, this way you are unlikely to forget and leave the overboard discharge seacock open when arriving back in the harbor. One less thing to explain to guests too! The holding tank had one hose to the deckplate pumpout fitting and one hose that went to a manual pump for overboard discharge. On our boat it was easy to install an eyebolt in a bulkhead next to the overboard seacock and a regular padlock locked it in the closed position.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I assume you don’t plan to go offshore? How do you exercise your valve? If you don’t move it for more than a season or two, I doubt it will ever move without disassembly and service.

If you seal the valve and don't plan on opening it again, you're way better off removing the through hull and glassing over the hole. The fewer holes in the bottom the better.