Hose change: tips appreciated

[zachduckworth]

My 1984 Islander Bahama 30 is in need of a plumbing upgrade. The hoses are probably 13 years old. They are getting a sort of orange oil stained look on them and they smell, frankly. I also found tiny bugs crawling on them yesterday. Gross. Unacceptable on my lady.
So, I've resigned myself to this job. It seems easy enough as my boat is pretty well designed in this regard. The hose fittings are all easy to access. Does anyone have any tips to making this less nasty? Pumping water and bleach through the system maybe? The part I’m most hesitant about is the hose running from the bottom of the holding tank. Which is located in the bow of the boat. I’m not sure how I can get it pumped all the way out, as the pumpout valve goes through a y-valve (the other side dumps everything overboard. Any advice very much appreciated!

[Tupaia]

Are we talking toilet hoses ?
If you get 10 years you are lucky, 13 years they are almost certainly past it and the only solution is replacement. No amount of flushing will achieve the desired result. Buy the best quality hoses. When you have finished the job you will know why. Not doing it again for 13 years.


It is worth cleaning and treating the holding tank.


Tip - always keep you mouth closed.

[sailorboy1]

If you are talking head hoses beside flushing the system first my main advice is to use the expensive Santiflex hose. It is easier to snake around, put on fittings, and lasts longer.

[Nekton73]

If you're willing to spend a few extra $ and take a couple of extra steps, you could buy a can of spray foam and fill both ends of each hose before removing. This all but eliminates spilling the dregs by accident as you remove them, but it takes extra work and time as you have to go to the effort of propping up the ends of each hose after you spray into them while the foam dries. If you plan it all out it should go ok. Expose access to all hoses, loosen all clamps, have string, blocking, or tape ready to support the end right after you remove it. Be sure to let the foam cure completely before moving the hoses again.

[sailingharry]

One general tip on hoses. A hose slides onto a hose barb, and then becomes unmovable (and therefore unremovable). A few minutes with a heat gun on the hose will soften it just enough so it can be removed with minimal effort.


I use this every year for removing my seawater hoses to winterize. I've also found it helpful to remove diesel supply lines. And, to the point of this thread, to remove hoses (supply and discharge) from the head.


Note, I'm NOT talking about melting them. Just hot to the touch -- maybe 100F or so.


Oh, the yuk factor. If you pump your head 50-100 strokes, the water left in the pipes is fairly un-yucky. Sure, wash your hands after, but it's no yuckier than cleaning a household toilet.


As far as the holding tank, the stuff in there is mostly watery, and if you pump out, run 5 gallons of fresh water down the pumpout fitting, and pump out again, it should be easy enough to remove the remaining fluid with a manual bilge pump (the 2' long tube type pump). I used to have a LectraSan and had to pump it dry every winter, easy-peasy. When you have the tank open, hose it down good (or better yet, power wash it).

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

If you're willing to spend a few extra $ and take a couple of extra steps, you could buy a can of spray foam and fill both ends of each hose before removing.

Or ...just stick some paper rags in it and tape a used plastic grocery bag over it.

Another tip is; if your hose snakes through bulkheads etc tie a strong string to if before pulling it out so you can use the string to snake the new hose in.

BTW - the hose people say NOT to use heat guns etc.

[peghall]

This is long, but I think you'll find it useful..In fact, it will be included in my next book:

REPLACING HOSES IN AN EXISTING SYSTEM

Measure the amount of new hose you’ll need and buy it (add at least one extra foot as a safety margin). Use sanitation hose throughout the entire system, including the toilet intake and tank vent.

Map out your entire plan and determine solutions to all problems and obstacles before you remove a single hose. Photos can be very useful in helping you map it out, and in finding out what you'll be up against in hard to see areas. In some cases, real time video can even be your eyes while doing the work.

If you discover that you have questions that need answers, or problems you aren’t sure how to solve. Ask those questions before you start any work, because it’s always cheaper and easier to do it right the first time than it is to do it over!

Prepping to do any work on any part of the sanitation system starts with thoroughly rinsing out the whole system with plenty of clean water before taking anything apart. Pump out the holding tank VERY thoroughly with lots of clean fresh water. Adding Raritan C.P. to the rinse will remove most of the odor. Rinse out the toilet, all hoses and any macerators or manual pumps, VERY thoroughly with lots and lots of clean water. If the hoses REALLY stink, it may help to smear a healthy glob of Vicks Salve under your nose before you start. If possible, schedule your project for a time when you can do it on a cool day. And be sure to create plenty of ventilation, especially in any closed areas in the bilge.

Put plastic garbage bags or disposable aluminum pans under hose connections to catch any spills. (Warming hoses with a blow dryer makes them easier to remove and replace). Have a couple of rolls paper shop towels (super heavy duty paper towels) handy...you'll need them.

Now you’re ready to start the real work.

Remove the highest hose connection first to minimize drips, and stick plugs (available from any hardware store) in the ends of the hose. Work on only one hose at a time...and take each section of hose all the way off the boat as soon as you get it loose (your dock mates may insist you take it all the way off the dock!). When taking a hose off a fitting, have a pan or a plastic trash bag under the connection to catch any drainage. Have lots of shop towels handy to mop up what misses the pan.

Removing hoses becomes much easier if you’ll heat them with a heat gun (I’ve always preferred using a blow dryer) to soften them up before trying to work them off. Unless you want to also replace all the fittings, do not pry them off with a screwdriver or saw them off...the screwdriver blade will dimple the fitting, the saw will cut into it, and the new hose won’t seal.

It’s often much easier to pull new hose through inaccessible places if you connect it to the old hose and pull the new through as you pull the old out. Use a male-to male connector. Use PVC cement to secure the ends of both hoses onto it. Do not use duct tape…it won’t hold if you have to pull hard. Do not hose clamps or anything that can get hung up as you pull the hose through, and be sure to butt the ends of the hose tightly together to create the smoothest uninterrupted surface possible. After you’ve pulled it through, cut the new hose cleanly behind the connector and dispose of the old hose and connector.

To put the new hose onto fittings, heat the hose with a blow dryer (use a heat gun only if you really know what you’re doing with one) to soften it. Be careful, and be patientl! You only want to warm the hose enough to slide it onto a fitting; overheating hose can damage it, causing collapse or tearing. Smear a little dish soap (or even better, K-Y surgical jelly; it’s much slipperier than soap and water soluble, so it dries out) on the inside of the hose and the outside of the fitting to lubricate the connection. Don’t use Vaseline or any grease...and don’t use ANY cement or sealant...only Teflon tape on the threaded end of tank fittings. Double clamp all the hose connections with screws on opposite sides of the hose, or at least 90 degrees apart if 180 degrees isn’t possible.

Important note: Plastic tank fittings are NPT (National Pipe Thread) standard, which are slightly (so slightly that it’s not noticeable to the naked eye in such a short piece) tapered. They’re also self-sealing. So when threading fittings into the tank, tighten only one turn past “hand tight,” plus enough to aim an elbow in the direction needed, no more. If the fitting leaks around the threads, wrap them with a couple of layers of Teflon tape. Over-tightening can result in a cracked female tank fitting, if not immediately, within a short time. That little “ping” sound is the last thing you want to hear coming from the tank.

As long as you have the entire system apart, now would be an excellent time to either rebuild or replace your toilet pump. If it’s a top quality manual toilet that’s 5-7 years old, rebuild it. But if you can replace the pump with the identical make/model for little more than the price of a rebuild or “service” kit, I’d definitely replace the pump. Or spend a bit more to upgrade to a higher quality toilet that has a longer life expectancy. If you’ve been considering upgrading to the “push button convenience of an electric toilet, now is a good time. Several are available as “conversion kits” that allow you to re-use your existing bowl, seat and lid.


--Peggie

[Snore]

Cut off the old ones, and slide on new ones. If you insist on using a lubricant on the new ones, use olive oil. It is food grade and will wash out fairly fast.

Or use a hair dryer to heat the hoses.

[peghall]

If you insist on using a lubricant on the new ones, use olive oil. It is food grade and will wash out fairly fast.

I disagree with using any lubricant that remains slippery. The industry recommends dishwashing liquid. I recommend K-Y because it's a water soluble surgical jelly that's slipperier than dish soap and dries out fairly quickly, plus it's inexpensive and available from any drugstore.


--Peggie

[Snore]

Originally Posted by peghall

If you insist on using a lubricant on the new ones, use olive oil. It is food grade and will wash out fairly fast.

I disagree with using any lubricant that remains slippery. The industry recommends dishwashing liquid. I recommend K-Y because it's a water soluble surgical jelly that's slipperier than dish soap and dries out fairly quickly, plus it's inexpensive and available from any drugstore.


--Peggie

Peg. Maybe because I ‘grew up’ on the smooth side of the water business I am sensitive to the products used.

“KY Jelly should not be ingested or allowed to come into contact with the eyes. In case of accidental ingestion, rinse out the mouth with water. Do not induce vomiting. Seek medical attention if adverse health effects persist.”

See https://www.drugs.com/k-y-jelly.html...ects%20persist.

[sailingharry]

Personal and anecdotal experience indicates that those hazards are massively overstated and probably written by lawyers.

I suspect that many members of this forum have extensive experience with K-Y with zero complications. More than a few have ended up with it in their mouths. Some may even have gotten it in their eyes. [emoji849][emoji33]

Like California prop 65, these kinds of Chicken Little warnings deafen us to real warnings of real hazards.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Personal and anecdotal experience indicates that those hazards are massively overstated and probably written by lawyers.

I suspect that many members of this forum have extensive experience with K-Y with zero complications. More than a few have ended up with it in their mouths. Some may even have gotten it in their eyes. [emoji849][emoji33]

Like California prop 65, these kinds of Chicken Little warnings deafen us to real warnings of real hazards.

Harry, my comment is neither strictly person nor anecdotal. ‘When I had a real job’, I was a licensed water system operator. Responsible for the water to about 100,000 people. I take very seriously what goes into any water system. And would never suggest someone use something that is not food grade.


Just another reason why I don’t drink water from the tank of any vessel I deliver!

[sailingharry]

Ah... I am a mechanical engineer and been involved with water treatment plants --on both ends

In this particular thread, no one is going to intentionally ingest any of the contents. And if they do, the warnings on the K-Y are the least of their concerns! When Peggy chimes in, it is at least 98% waste water related -- she is the "Head Mistress."

[Nicholson58]

Did this job recently. The only hose I would ever use is Raritan Saniflex Odorshield butyl hose.

Extremely high flex, tight bend radius, easy install. The standard PVC sold at most chandlers is very stiff.

Butyl stays impermeable longer than PVC.

At Defender. (Search on line for best options)

https://defender.com/en_us/raritan-s...7787&615=36068

[peghall]

Raritan SaniFlex is the only hose I recommend now, because it's not only so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin (which makes most re-hosing jobs a LOT easier), but also has a 10 year warranty against odor permeation. Available in 1" and 1.5"...I haven't seen a better price for it than Defender's.



--Peggie