Insulation Around Fridge

[Roy M]

Thanks, to all of you, for your input and suggestions. I will keep in touch as I go forward with this project.

[Lojanica]

FYI. Here's a nice add to any insulated build.

Get mylar 5 mil food storage bags in the 20 x 30 in size. (They are $1.50 ea) Take the poly iso foam (s) and bag them in the mylar bags. Just use a clothes iron to seal the bags. If you are a belt a suspenders type then double bag and vacuum seal. Very easy BTW just hook up your vacuum cleaner to a straw and suck out all the air under continuous vac while you iron the bag closed then when you get to the straw just pull and seal the last 1/2 in.

Now take the mylar bagged foam bricks and just like in building a wall stagger them around the box and use spray glue to hold in place.

No water penetration. Better insulation. No absorption of odors, etc. Very cheap.

Another way (even better) mylar vacuum bag the foam (the nice thing is the bags are 20 x 30 so you can make the foam any thickness and also use a mix of styrofoam peanuts and/or bean bag beads to make complex curves----easily----.

Now the last step if you are a nuclear engineer type Use fiberglass composite foam cores like COOSA and glass or epoxy those panels. Of course cut them out and dry fit first, then glass them well. Then all you have to do is take your mylar bricks and lay them in an overlapping pattern until you get to the final layer which is the glassed foam----if you're cheap you can just epoxy the iso or styrofoam but the coosa is structural and insulative and won't rot. Then just fillet the box in place.

Super insulated and easy. Won't absorb water. If ever needed to come apart no foam stuck to anything becasue it is all encapsulated.

Lastly if you need high R but no space just vacuum bag Aspen aerogel and you can get R 25 with 3 inches total room from inside of box to outside using aerogel and coosa.

[Lojanica]

I forgot wrap the mylar like a xmas present with tape to make the excess plastic bag tight to the foam bricks.

Also add a strip of aluminum under the Glass on the COOSA panels for areas where screws go in for mounting shelves and plates because the foam doesn't hold screws well but a thin strip of aluminum where you are going to mount stuff works great.

Consider spraying Biostat 500 (mix in a Home Depot empty spray bottle($2) to coat surfaces as they are being layered.

If you are truly on a budget go to Home Depot(HD) buy 4 x 8 ft .090 fiberglass panels, shower panel angles and corners, 3m 5200, styrofoam peanuts, and Blue styrofoam sheet. Wrap the Blue Foam in mylar. Tape together in the boat. Mylar bag a bunch of styrofoam peanuts and stuff all around the bluefoam. Use tin snips to cut the fiberglass 0.09 panels, glue everything together with spray glue and 5200 the corners and stuff that needs to be secure and in one afternoon you have cheap well made insulated box.

Biostat500

Green Gorilla Cleaning - Biostat500*- Inhibits the growth of Mold, Bacteria, Algae

[Roy M]

Okay, time for some pics of the progress of the reefer.

First pic: the hardware ( a copy of my own, except for my using two "circuits" instead of three)

2nd: a view aft of the galley to the sterncastle dining area. The reefer will sit in the raised floor area. The patterns for the outer box were made using thin, two inch cheap fiberboard, glued with a hot melt glue gun, cut out of 1/4" birch ply, tacked temporarily with the glue gun and then West System fillets to hold shape, then epoxy coated. The hardware sits in the bilge locker (raised) aft of the reefer. Cooling water and cooling fans eject heat over the side.

3rd: playing with the lids to make sure things will fit OK.

4th: the secret weapon, a Japanese handsaw. In effect, a portable bandsaw, especially for cutting foam and thin ply.

5th: an example of pattern building using thin fiberboard strips and hot melt glue.

6th: Foam is temporarily in and bottom skin of reefer cap is fitted.

7th: Here you see the inner ply box, the tapering details of making the box conform to the hull shape, and an attempt at making the sloping sides more effective storage with shelves. I'm changing this design to gain additional storage space for small items inside the shelf "boxes". I mad a template of the coldplate out of foam to confirm size and location for the breaching hole that contains the reefer lines, electrical, etc.

8th: The top, approaching completion. I am using styrofoam as the template for the Vacuum Insulated Panels. The pink insulation is some new stuff I found at Home Depot, 1'2" (because of the hatch configuration) that has an R 3 value. The lids are standard from RParts. Now, I start sealing every wood panel, sending off for the VIPs next week, purchasing the cold plate, and doing the cosmetics inside the box. More pics to come.

[Roy M]

I will build the freezer at a later date (this stuff is expensive) and it will be located in the aft cabin, adjacent to the main strength bulkhead, and easily accessible from the galley. It will be entirely rectangular to speed construction, hold costs down (using standard size VIP panels), hold about 6 cubic feet of pork chops, etc., and tie into the existing compressor system. Because stuff will be frozen hard, I will use crates to stack/retrieve food contained within. Things shouldn't get very warm while I search around for the lost frozen treat that I squirreled away somewhere.

[Khagan1227]

I'm just curious about how much insulation most people have on the counter top openings to their boxes.

I have a friend that has 3.5" glued to the bottom of the top. That seems to be way over kill.

Thoughts?

[Roy M]

The actual lid of the RParts fabricated hatch has only one inch of Vacuum Insulated Panel, plus the sheathing plastic. They suggest a 1/2" cover atop this hatch. My unit rests in an opening of the top which is 1/4" plywood, 1/2" of Owens Corning Foamular sheathing, an inch of VIP, another inch of polyurethane, and a final 1'4" of ply beneath. It is probably at the reasonable limit of insulation (diminishing returns mentioned by Nigel Calder in his book). My feeling is that the less my compressor cycles while in tropical water and atmosphere, the happier I will be, therefore...

[Sumner]

Originally Posted by Khagan1227

I'm just curious about how much insulation most people have on the counter top openings to their boxes.

I have a friend that has 3.5" glued to the bottom of the top. That seems to be way over kill.

Thoughts?

I don't think the 3 1/2 inches in the top is overkill at all. We have....



.... 3 inches in the two top lids plus...



...the lid on the left has a hinged lid above that and the one on the right has the lift-out lid above the insulated one. The main problem is how much can be in the lid and still be able to get into the box easily or fairly easily. The more up there also probably means that the bottom inside of the box is lower which might present problems reaching down into it. I'm 6-1, but Ruth is 5-2 so sometimes compromises have to happen in consideration of who is using something.

The place the insulation is going to make the biggest difference is the bottom. We have 7 inches and 9 inches on the bottom (4 inches on the sides)

Roy nice work!!

Sum

--------------------------------------------------

[Roy M]

Sumner, thank you. I've enjoyed reading your construction blog and learned a lot.

[Roy M]

I'm about to order my panels. RParts now wants me to submit drawings instead of paper templates. Something about not getting good results, but no details. My concern is that the required VIPs have few right angles, and I am not sure how they will handle the polygons that I have fabricated as templates. They haven't responded yet to my e-mails, and I have also contacted Nanopore, in New Mexico. I will let you know the outcome. All panels are flat, with no interior holes. The route of the tubing and wiring through the box is accomplished by simply having lopped a corner off the template, which will be filled with spray foam on final assembly. I wish there were more vendors available. A friend of mine, with considerably more financial resources and lots of creativity, is experimenting with a vacuum tank and the possibility of producing his own panels. He has been using steel boxes with temp recorders inside, then drawing an interior vacuum and placing the unit inside a walk-in freezer. I'll report the findings when available.

[Roy M]

This is an update. RParts doesn't actually fabricate the VIPs. They send for them overseas, hence the need for drawings. I have contacted Nanopore in New Mexico. They manufacture onsite, they CAN use paper templates, and have a $1000 minimum. Anyone interested in making a joint order? I have also found an additional US provider and will update as soon as possible.

[Roy M]

I spoke with Nanopore's sales guy. He confirms they fabricate the panels themselves and that they have no problem with paper templates. I made mine out of that reddish, heavy duty resin-coated paper you buy at Home Depot to protect floors during construction. I will be sending my patterns to them this week to get a price. I think I'll just go ahead and build the freezer now, so that I get the best price possible. If anyone is interested in going in with me to make a joint order, that's cool, but I'll be placing the order within the next thirty days, so get your templates ready now. This is the same company that made them for Glacier Bay, so you know they're the best available. VIPs are one place you don't want to go cheap.

On another note, Tom Finck, president of RTF Manufacturing (they make custom reefers and freezers for the military RTF Manufacturing Marine Refrigeration) in New York, gave me a great link to another guy who makes VIPs. His name is Dwight Musgrave and he did a presentation on VIP failure analysis. Here's the link:http://www.thermalvisions.com/Techni...ier%20Film.pdf.

Google "Dwight Musgrave VIP" for a ton of tech info on VIPs.

[Roy M]

Update on Nanopore VIPs: I sent them the paper templates and they have sent me a quote of $333 for 12 panels that are all irregular polygons. These are the heavy duty Mylar units that have a life of about 10 years. Since there is a $1000 minimum, I am going to design and build my inner and outer boxes for the freezer unit, as well. I am very impressed with the cost of these things, definitely not as costly as I feared. So, if there is anyone out there who wants to share an order with me, you have thirty days to get your act together. Send me a PM to make arrangements.

[Lojanica]

Roy M---Thanks. Very good info.

[Roy M]

I am making my order for the Nanopore VIPs this morning, so the group order option is closed. They have told me that they will credit my account for the balance of the $1000 order for one year. This gives me time to better design and build the freezer box. The remaining balance of the credit will be used to build an on-deck fish box that I can fill with ice to keep catch fresh. The coldplate has been ordered and is expected any day now. I will send the next batch of pics as soon as I have painted the reefer interior, added the ducting fans, mounted the cold plate and the shock-cord shelf restraints. That way, the entire interior is visible for details. When the VIPs arrive, I can install them, install the lid, and get more pics sent. Then, it's time to hook up the plumbing and see if I can make cold. It's been a long process, but it is finally coming together.