Manual vs electric head?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

An appeal of electric heads which can be plumbed to flush with raw water or fresh water with the turn of a valve. Not that flushing with the shower is a major inconvenience.

Whether flushing with the shower is convenient or not depends on the boat. My showers are large separate stalls, not close to the toilets. The shower hoses don't reach.

[Old fella]

I found both electric and manual good once I put a sign in for lady visitors , saying apart from toilet paper nothing goes in the toilet if it didn't go via your mouth, it had to be a large sign for them to see it, I don't know why, mabey glazed eyes from the relief of the moment. Then a few years later I changed to a c head composting toilet, best thing I ever did as far as toilets go, but not everybody's cup of tea I know.

[Pizzazz]

I converted a manual Jabsco to electric with the TMC converter kit. I have been happy with the conversion. In my experience, this is true for all toilets:

- Electric is more convenient, single button and most of the time it works quite well. The more expensive electrics have a more powerful motor which is good. Mine only draws 8-9A and sometimes chokes on the harder stuff. Still it works well.

- For an electric, it is important to balance water in vs water out. The best way to do this is to close the intake valve a bit (either raw or fresh), so that you do not use too much water. I know that some use two motors, one for dry and one for wet flush but it is too complicated for kids and inexperienced users.

- Manual toilets push the stuff without macerating, so when they choke on the harder stuff, usually the non return valve is damaged. This can get annoying. I have had joker valves last for one year and then a particular guest can go through 2-3 of them on a one week cruise. Not pretty.

- Whatever you do, make sure you use PVC tubing as much as possible. It is night and day in terms of smell.

SV Pizzazz

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

. . . - For an electric, it is important to balance water in vs water out. The best way to do this is to close the intake valve a bit (either raw or fresh), so that you do not use too much water. I know that some use two motors, one for dry and one for wet flush but it is too complicated for kids and inexperienced users. . . .

I'm surprised we haven't discussed this. You are right.


Our Raritan Sea Era has no way to do this balance -- one motor, one button, and no valves. When everything is normal, the discharge pump has enough greater capacity to stay ahead of the intake pump, but not always. And so from time to time you are having to partially close the through hull valve. This is a PITA and in fact I think it's a design defect.


The Jabsco conversion is better in this regard -- it has a "discharge only" position in the operating dial, which sort of works. It doesn't shut down the pump but closes a valve. You never have to use the through hull valve.



But if I were shopping for a new toilet from scratch, I would look for one with entirely separate pumps with can be operated separately.

[philmarks]

I carried aTMC electric model in a locker for 15 years and only got round to fitting it in the lockdown - there was always something else to fix. I had to replace the original impeller and an o-ring but it works well - and I no longer get blockages in the gravity outlet from the above-water holding tank. The mate is very happy with the new arrangements.



I haven't worked out how much it's cost me in 15 years to replace parts in 2 ITT manual heads, but that would have paid for the TMC unit several times. A chandler told me that the spares for an ITT electric head are significantly more expensive than those for a TMC. He is a long term TMC electric user himself.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm surprised we haven't discussed this. You are right.


Our Raritan Sea Era has no way to do this balance -- one motor, one button, and no valves. When everything is normal, the discharge pump has enough greater capacity to stay ahead of the intake pump, but not always. And so from time to time you are having to partially close the through hull valve. This is a PITA and in fact I think it's a design defect.


The Jabsco conversion is better in this regard -- it has a "discharge only" position in the operating dial, which sort of works. It doesn't shut down the pump but closes a valve. You never have to use the through hull valve.



But if I were shopping for a new toilet from scratch, I would look for one with entirely separate pumps with can be operated separately.

My Tecma Elegance Toilet has an adjustable timer knob on the freshwater solenoid that allows me to set the level inside the bowl to balance fluids and sewage hose volume with the macerator discharge pump.

It is a two button system:

1...Wet bowl: fills bowl to level desired

2....Flush adds more calibrated fresh water while flushing to empty line above anti siphon loop if in direct discharge.

Then After a few seconds, macerator discharge pump does a 2 second burst to confirm Dry bowl.

Sailing we stop there and leave it on Dry bowl,
At anchor user pushes top Wet bowl button again to leave ready for next person as I think the fresh water in bowl acts as an odor barrier.

It is very intuitive and easy to calibrate. When I upsized my fresh water pump from 30psi to 60psi, it just needed a small adjustment on timer

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

My Tecma Elegance Toilet has an adjustable timer knob on the freshwater solenoid that allows me to set the level inside the bowl to balance fluids and sewage hose volume with the macerator discharge pump.

It is a two button system:

1...Wet bowl: fills bowl to level desired

2....Flush adds more calibrated fresh water while flushing to empty line above anti siphon loop if in direct discharge.

Then After a few seconds, macerator discharge pump does a 2 second burst to confirm Dry bowl.

Sailing we stop there and leave it on Dry bowl,
At anchor user pushes top Wet bowl button again to leave ready for next person as I think the fresh water in bowl acts as an odor barrier.

It is very intuitive and easy to calibrate. When I upsized my fresh water pump from 30psi to 60psi, it just needed a small adjustment on timer

That sounds very good.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm surprised we haven't discussed this. You are right.


Our Raritan Sea Era has no way to do this balance -- one motor, one button, and no valves. When everything is normal, the discharge pump has enough greater capacity to stay ahead of the intake pump, but not always. And so from time to time you are having to partially close the through hull valve. This is a PITA and in fact I think it's a design defect.


The Jabsco conversion is better in this regard -- it has a "discharge only" position in the operating dial, which sort of works. It doesn't shut down the pump but closes a valve. You never have to use the through hull valve.



But if I were shopping for a new toilet from scratch, I would look for one with entirely separate pumps with can be operated separately.

The newer Sea Era versions have an option for a separate seawater pump, so "drain only" would be possible with the right controls. On mine (the integral pump version), I've never really found it gets ahead of the discharge where it can't catch up. With solids, it's sometimes most effective to hit the button for a second, let everything settle to the bottom with the bit of water, then hit it again. Ends up being able to push it through with a bit less water that way.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That sounds very good.

This video shows an elegant design and good plumbing.
I have never had a blockage in 14 years of almost daily service with the silence plus short version.

https://youtu.be/W9pvWgslYjU

[warmbluewater]

Wow! What a great amount of info on heads.

We have 2 Jabsco manual heads on our Taswell. Our difficulties are not with the manual operation but with the joker valves. We pump up hill to our holding tank.

We pump with fresh water and no urine goes through the system. My research of various brands of electric toilets is they all still use joker valves. Our jokers valves never last more than 5 months. We would love an electric head but only if there is new magic we can use to get joker valves to last as long as some of the posters in this thread.

What are we doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by warmbluewater

Wow! What a great amount of info on heads.

We have 2 Jabsco manual heads on our Taswell. Our difficulties are not with the manual operation but with the joker valves. We pump up hill to our holding tank.

We pump with fresh water and no urine goes through the system. My research of various brands of electric toilets is they all still use joker valves. Our jokers valves never last more than 5 months. We would love an electric head but only if there is new magic we can use to get joker valves to last as long as some of the posters in this thread.

What are we doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.

We had almost identical situation and converted them using the Jabsco conversion kit. It was better, very noisy but the valves still failed regularly.
Solution was to change to Johnson twin pump electric heads and change the large bore outlet to the small bore outlet. This means the valve is smaller and the amount of water supported above it by the smaller pipe is less. Valves still going strong after nearly 4 years. Heads are much quieter as well.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by warmbluewater

We have 2 Jabsco manual heads on our Taswell. Our difficulties are not with the manual operation but with the joker valves. We pump up hill to our holding tank.

We pump with fresh water and no urine goes through the system. My research of various brands of electric toilets is they all still use joker valves. Our jokers valves never last more than 5 months. We would love an electric head but only if there is new magic we can use to get joker valves to last as long as some of the posters in this thread.

What are we doing wrong?

Dunno. Our joker valves -- just before a loop, into a sorta-kinda downhill run -- usually lasted 2-4 years, depending. And we usually spent 150-200 nights aboard...

-Chris

[CamWrenRoo]

Thank you everyone for your advice on this! I think we're going the composting route.

[toolbar]

> I think we're going the composting route.

That leaves the question: Has anyone installed a small electrical motor to turn the compost over in a Natures Head at the push of a button?

Paul

[zemurray]

Originally Posted by warmbluewater

Wow! What a great amount of info on heads.

We have 2 Jabsco manual heads on our Taswell. Our difficulties are not with the manual operation but with the joker valves. We pump up hill to our holding tank.

We pump with fresh water and no urine goes through the system. My research of various brands of electric toilets is they all still use joker valves. Our jokers valves never last more than 5 months. We would love an electric head but only if there is new magic we can use to get joker valves to last as long as some of the posters in this thread.

What are we doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.

are you using any chemical cleaners in your head? that will deform and destroy joker valves (and other rubber parts)