New-to-me watermaker, needed next year

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I learn something new every day! I didn't realize the stuff expires. No idea how old the Katadyn is -- but I also have no idea how old the Spectra stuff is either. If it has a finite shelf life, they may all be bad. I'm going to the boat today, I'll see if they have "use by" dates (or even "made on" dates).

Didn’t say it expired, but if it’s katadyn from before the spectra days it’s guaranteed to be the wrong stuff, and even if after the merger it could still be the wrong stuff.

[sailjumanji]

Regarding the preservative, I think either way that Tellie is going to recommend the propylene glycol 50% mixture as it is easier on the watermaker parts. Or at least that is what he has done historically with me, even though we had the SC-1. You can get it at West Marine. Pink stuff in a gallon jug. We usually carry it when cruising, to have it available when we finish the trip, and pickle it then. First time we pickled was in June 2016, and restarted in March 2018. Performance was identical to prior usage. We pickled again in June 2019, and will probably restart in April 2021.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Regarding the preservative, I think either way that Tellie is going to recommend the propylene glycol 50% mixture as it is easier on the watermaker parts. Or at least that is what he has done historically with me, even though we had the SC-1. You can get it at West Marine. Pink stuff in a gallon jug. We usually carry it when cruising, to have it available when we finish the trip, and pickle it then. First time we pickled was in June 2016, and restarted in March 2018. Performance was identical to prior usage. We pickled again in June 2019, and will probably restart in April 2021.

Thanks. Very encouraging words. I think it was done with PG several years ago. PG is supposed to be good for 6 months, so that would not sound promising - but your experience sounds very good.

I intend to repickle with PG after I test it, since it will be 6 months at least before I actually use it.

I thought SC1 fit into the mix for short term storage -- a few weeks. PG does better and lasts way longer, but takes much longer to flush - several more hours, as I understand it.

Your experience with long term PG layup is very good news!

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Thanks. Very encouraging words. I think it was done with PG several years ago. PG is supposed to be good for 6 months, so that would not sound promising - but your experience sounds very good.

I intend to repickle with PG after I test it, since it will be 6 months at least before I actually use it.

I thought SC1 fit into the mix for short term storage -- a few weeks. PG does better and lasts way longer, but takes much longer to flush - several more hours, as I understand it.

Your experience with long term PG layup is very good news!

Hmmm, i dont have my notes, but i dont remember the PG flush time being anywhere near that long. Other than having to haul around a couple of gallon jugs, i didnt see any disadvantage to PG.

[Tellie]

PG-50 will pickle the system for over two years. The Spectra SC-1 is good for six months. If the PG-50 pink is mixed properly when pickling it should not take more than 30-45 minutes to flush out of the system when re-commissioning the unit. When we first started using and experimenting with the PG we used the PG-100 purple which did give us fits with the long flush times but we no longer use the PG -100

[sailingharry]

So, we have some great feedback!


The creek water is much better (gets that way in the fall) with visibility over 2 feet. Salinity is low in the upper Chesapeake, around 800 PPM, but still salty.


I fired it up this past weekend, following the manual. Didn't see Tellie's comments on only needing to flush 45 minutes, and went on the Spectra manual guidance of several hours.


On first firing up, the water coming out the discharge had a purple tint -- so it was PG pickled. I ran the flush for about 24 hours.


Came back, and shifted to making water. Salinity was about 30-40 PPM. Measured flow rate in a calibrated cup was 4.7 GPM, the gauge read 7 GPM. So-so. Ran it for 24 hours, and my water tanks went from nearly empty to overflowing (150 gallons). Water tastes great!


Possible problem. The feed pressure runs around 25PSI. And when in open flow (bypass open), the feed pressure is 0PSI. Is that a problem with the feed pump? I should probably do a flow test, right? My low feed salinity contributes, I know.



I fresh water flushed it on Sunday, so have to shut down my experimentation no later than this weekend. Maybe I'll fresh water flush for 10 minutes or so Thur or Fri.


The feedback on PG-50 is good. I only need to pickle for 6 months (and need freeze protection anyway!) so I'll pickle with PG-50.


Tellie -- I'll call you tomorrow.

Harry

[Tellie]

Todays a very busy day for me so if I don't pick up right away try again in about ten minutes.

If your input water is 800ppm, and 40-60ppms measured product water means nothing. On average offshore salt water is around 32,000ppms, about 40 times saltier. If we went off 800ppms and 40-60ppms product would it would mean about 1,600-2,400ppms for your product water offshore. You would surely taste the salt in those ranges. The less salty the water the lower the pressure and higher the production. In a properly working Ventura 150 at 800ppm input I would expect to see 30-40-psi on the pressure gauge and around 10-12gpm in the flow meter. Even a bad membrane and poor pressures and flow will seem to make great water with only an input of 800ppm's. Lets get it out to some offshore water before you head off. This will give far more accurate readings and let us know what is or is not working. Also, is the pressure gauge symmetrical? (Does the needle in the gauge go up to the same spot and down to the same spot on every stroke?)

[BlueH2Obound]

Tellie, Am I'm reading this correctly? You're stating output should be 10-12gpm? So in gallons per HOUR, you are saying 600 to 720 gallons per hour (GPH)?

[sailingharry]

Tellie,



You're not the only one busy -- I haven't had a chance all week to try and call you! But your email is helpful (if perhaps disappointing....).


I've read the details on the artificial ocean, which you've recommended and others have said is easy to do. I bought 4 pounds of salt today (I know, I only need 1.3 pounds in 5 gallons). I'll mix up an ocean and run it on Saturday.


I didn't watch for symmetry -- not entirely sure I understand. I guess as I see the pulse in the pressure (it jumps every 5 seconds or so?) I'll be looking for similar high and low pressures in subsequent pulses? There's no way to know if it's the left or right phase, but just any two phases, right?


Oh, I have a nuisance problem. The shelf it is on is covered with liquid, and has been since I bought the boat. I hosed it down well this spring, and it's covered again. Sounds like a leak (PG, I assume). Is this normal? Any suggestions where to look?


Harry

[sailingharry]

A small issue. I bought 4 pounds of salt. Then re-read the instructions for an artificial ocean, and it says non-iodized salt.

The price for my 4 lbs was nice -- $2 -- but even nicer was getting it, and getting a nice size box. Rock salt will be a bit harder (probably home depot, just need to look). And probably comes in a 30 lb bag....

Does the iodine actually cause problems? I have it, I could be mixing it tomorrow morning!

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

A small issue. I bought 4 pounds of salt. Then re-read the instructions for an artificial ocean, and it says non-iodized salt.

The price for my 4 lbs was nice -- $2 -- but even nicer was getting it, and getting a nice size box. Rock salt will be a bit harder (probably home depot, just need to look). And probably comes in a 30 lb bag....

Does the iodine actually cause problems? I have it, I could be mixing it tomorrow morning!

Here’s what I used to test the watermaker I had resurrected from the dead.

http://www.instantocean.com/Products...t-mixture.aspx

[sailingharry]

Okay, I'm not as happy as I was!

I bought non iodized salt and made myself a five gallon ocean using 1.3 lb of salt to 5 gallons as described in the manual.

Hooked up the ocean and got it running. That worked well. The results are not so nice!

Here is the verdict:
* Product flow is 2 cups in 90 seconds, or 5 gallons per hour
* Feed Flow is one gallon in 40 seconds, or 1.5 gal per minute
* Product salinity is 400 PPM
* Feed pressure runs about 45 - 50 PSI and is consistent between subsequent strokes
* Product flow gauge indicates 7 dropping to 4 GPH between strokes


According to the manual, my feed pressure is 10 to 20 PSI low, my feed flow is 0.2 gallons per minute low, and my product flow is 0.7 gallons per hour low. Also according to the manual, my feed flow being 2/10 of a gallon per minute low should give me about 1 gallon per hour of less flow, pretty much consistent with my results.

Lastly, the primary cause of all of this is indicated to be a worn sure flow pump head.

I suspect Tellie is about to make a sale! Lol

Any thoughts?

[Tellie]

It could be the pump head, a Clark pump that needs attention, or a membrane issue.

[jt11791]

Or undersized wiring giving low voltage. Try measuring the voltage at the feed pump both while running and not. The higher the voltage the more feed pressure. Undersized wires will cause larger voltage drop when the pump is on.

[sailingharry]

Tellie,

Sorry for the slow response, somehow I miss the notification.

You suggest that it could be the pump head, the membrane, or the Clark pump.

First question is, how do I know which to address?

The reason I suspect the pump head, is my fred pressure is low (<50psi) and my feed flow is low (1.5 gpm).

Aside from Gal/Ah efficiency and product GPM, are there any downsides (like imminent failure...)?

JT -- a good thought. At fist look, installation is solid. And PO wasn't afraid to hire the best[emoji849]. Still, I'll have a look at voltages.