New watermaker product - Help choose features

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by fgd3

The product concept is appealing but $6000 is too high a price to interest me.

Agree entirely. There’s a need for a $1000 entry level product

[sailorboy1]

Pretty positive that Spectra and the other energy recovery system DC watermaker manufacturers have proved that there is lots of market for a 6-8gph system in the $6k price range.

[bruce.c]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I took the poll. If you could pull off a low pressure, membrane free desalinization unit with an output closer to 10gph for around 8k-10k USD I think you’d blow away the market.

Questions I would have would be

1. Susceptibility to turbidity?
2. Removal of pathogens?
3. Consumable parts/lifespan of the ion grid (or whatever actually does the desalinization)

Thanks for the positive feedback.

1) It can handle 30 NTU intake turbidity, but we'll probably integrate a pre-filter to be safe
2) We can achieve a log reduction in pathogens, TBD on whether it is enough. More data and NSF testing required. We'll considering another step, like UV, if necessary
3) Expected life of the unit is ~10years based on life of off-the-shelf internals. We're still mulling what end-of-life should look like. Some options are: design it so users can do the swap once it's time for replacement, a core-exchange model, or a model where we send a technician. I'm interested people's opinions on this.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by bruce.c

3) Expected life of the unit is ~10years based on life of off-the-shelf internals. We're still mulling what end-of-life should look like. Some options are: design it so users can do the swap once it's time for replacement, a core-exchange model, or a model where we send a technician. I'm interested people's opinions on this.

I’m a fan of the right to repair movement. So my personal leaning is towards a model that will support parts. My last watermaker used a ton of o-rings, I carried a complete re-dress kit as well as some random wear items.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by bruce.c

Thanks for the positive feedback.

3) Expected life of the unit is ~10years based on life of off-the-shelf internals. We're still mulling what end-of-life should look like. Some options are: design it so users can do the swap once it's time for replacement, a core-exchange model, or a model where we send a technician. I'm interested people's opinions on this.

Has to be user replaceable. Most yachties are good with tools etc and tight with money, which leads to lots of DIY.

Sending a replacement cartridge to say French Polynesia by courier is one thing. Flying out a technician to some remote island at the owners expense won't really wash.

Do trial one in really cold water, you may find the lower salt content increases production.

[Lepke]

I built a 40gph RO system for less than 2Gs. I could do a lot of maintenance and even replace membranes before I came close to the asking price of the proposed systems.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by bruce.c

Peter, thanks so much for not indiscriminately deleting my post. ….

It would have been discriminately deleted, no other adjacent threads would have been deleted, unless they too violated the rules.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Lepke

I built a 40gph RO system for less than 2Gs. I could do a lot of maintenance and even replace membranes before I came close to the asking price of the proposed systems.

That’s the price of solar powered efficiency. If we had a generator I’d have gone for the triplex pump as well.

[Grith]

I have completed your survey. I do occasional extended cruises in remote locations where water can be uncertain but don’t liive onboard my 28 foot trailable cruising yacht. Price, pickling, weight/space and servicing complexity in general given intermittent use have seen me rely on water tanks with a small distillation unit for emergencies only.

[bruce.c]

Originally Posted by bruce.c

Hey folks, thanks for welcoming me to the community. I'm with a group from MIT developing a new watermaker technology. We're choosing which features to put in our products. If you have 5 minutes to spare, please take this survey!

https://dsc31232.sawtoothsoftware.co...ame=gtQ2nY7crq


Also please respond to this post if you've got other feature ideas. I'd love to hear them. Tell me what the dream watermaker looks like.

Alright folks, I have to give you a big thank you for all your comments, and survey responses. At the time of this writing there have been 862 post views, 55 completed survey responses, and 23 replies to the post. Thank you!

Now for a summary of the results.

Conjoint analysis uses an algorithm to construct the combinations of features you saw in the survey, with the objective of nailing down how much one values each feature vs. other features. Since one of the features compared here was price, the tool can be used to assign monetary values to each feature preference. What does this mean? This survey data lets us estimate how much (in dollars) respondents value each feature. We also segmented the data by boat size, type, and current solution.

Automation Upgrade
On average people valued automation features at $421
That value was closer to $270 if you have a monohull boat, or boat under 35ft
That value was closer to $550 if you have a catamaran, or a boat over 35ft.
The values was over $3,500 for motorboaters, but there were not enough respondents to make that number believable.

Upgrade to Larger Output Volumes
On average people valued both upgrades form 2.5gph to 5gph and from 5gph to 7.5gph at $1,150. That means people would pay $2,300 more for a 7.5gph unit over a 2.5gph one.
This pattern roughly held for all types of boats, though catamaran owners would pay closer to $1,500 for each level. The most interesting diversion here was with owners of boats below 35ft, who would pay $420 to upgrade from 2.5gph to 5gph, but would pay double that amount to go from 5gph to 7.5gph. It makes sense that they value each upgrade les $$, but the nonlinearity in this group is inexplicable to me. Theories welcome!

Relative Importance of Features
The tool I used for this survey (sawtooth) estimates how much people weigh each feature when making a buying decision. Across the board it looks roughly like this:

Price: 75%
Output Volume: 22%
Automation: 3%

For owners of boats of 35ft or Cat owners, the importance place on automation roughly doubled, taking it's share from price. It generally makes sense that those with more expensive boats value money less and time savings more!

Thank you again for the discussion, your insights were very valuable. I'm happy to answer more questions about the results.

[SV__Grace]

After using our Spectra watermaker for a few years now as full time cruisers who live on the hook I'm excited about NONA and am on their interest list.

Took the survey and love the automation features proposed but also love having a choice of price points- pay more for the bells and whistles, less for manual.

One important thing missing about this survey is the TYPE of boater responding as well as the type of boat. Most recreational boaters live on land, keep their boat in a marina, and spend no more than a week or so at most out on the water. Your market is full time cruisers with bigger boats (like moi) and probably need to survey those more specifically.

And I'd love to be a beta tester!

[djcameron]

We live aboard and cruise for 6-8 months per year in both the Carribean and Alaska. A simple low maintenance watermaker is crucial as we anchor out most of the time. Dockage and water are not readily available in most of our cruising grounds. For us, the most important factors are reliability, low maintenance, and low power draw. Fancy electronic controls are just another failure point. We had a lightning strike and the control board on the watermaker burned out. We spent days rewiring to convert the system back to simple manual controls so we could have water. In our circle of cruisers, there is very good demand for a reliable system with low power consumption in the $3,000 to $10,000 price range. None of us want a complex system that requires specialty parts and/or a technician to trouble shoot or repair. Keep it simple and keep it low power so we don't have to run the generator for hours.

[Ifitsworthdoing]

Have completed the survey but there was no obvious completion and termination message on the final page so unsure whether my input was registered. For me it is fundamentally about affordable pricing as my boat is quite small.

Of interest I have helped to crowdfund a small manual crank RO watermaker by QuenchSea - it can produce up to 1.5 gallons per hour (although that would be quite exhausting to do). It is priced at around $150 and is roughly the size of a 'doorstopper' book. I have just been sent two of these and intend to put them aboard my 34ft cruiser cat as well as on our 'exploration style' dinghy tender. I see it primarily as a curiosity to learn about the RO process, and as an emergency tool on the life raft if we ever have to bail out far from the coast.

I would be prepared to shell out $6k for a non-RO unit producing between 2.5 and 5 gallons per hour at 4.5A as our motor boat is all-electric with a vast solar panel array and huge batteries, so let's see where this goes ...

[PNWSalmon]

How quiet is quiet ? Is there any decibel rating ?

[daga]

I am a full-time live-aboard cruiser on a 12m monohull and I already have a watermaker.

US$6K is about twice what I would be willing to pay.

The only feature that would cause me to upgrade my existing watermaker is the ability to make fresh water from turbid, brackish river water as I prefer to anchor in rivers where possible.

I'd be interested in beta testing.