New watermaker product - Help choose features

[bruce.c]

Hey folks, thanks for welcoming me to the community. I'm with a group from MIT developing a new watermaker technology. We're choosing which features to put in our products. If you have 5 minutes to spare, please take this survey!

https://dsc31232.sawtoothsoftware.co...ame=gtQ2nY7crq


Also please respond to this post if you've got other feature ideas. I'd love to hear them. Tell me what the dream watermaker looks like.

[Pete7]

Bruce, welcome to CF.

As a moderator on CF, I can tell you we normally delete any survey that is posted. The reason is over the last decade not a single person has taken the time to come back to us with a summary of the results from the survey once an analysis has been completed.

However, your product is on topic, so I have a few questions.

1. Will you come back to the forum and share your findings?

2. The linked flashy website says the watermaker (WM) runs off 12v at 4.5A. How much water will it make in an hour?

3. The website says "NONA can run indefinitely on a small solar cell" From real world experience this would suggest a 80 - 100w solar panel. Is a panel of this size a small solar cell?

You have a couple of days to come back to the forum with the answers before your post goes the same way as your predecessors for wasting members valuable time.

Regards

Peter

[sailorboy1]

I took the survey and even selected the units I would select if I had to.

But the thing is it looks that price and energy the OP systems are only going to appeal to the energy recovery user market (Clark pump type RO unit).

[bruce.c]

Peter, thanks so much for not indiscriminately deleting my post. I'm responding with "Quick Reply"- not sure if that's standard, but it's my first time.

1) I will certainly share results on this thread! I'm happy to hear you are interested in them. I'll post results and some interpretation (conjoint analysis can be a bit tricky to understand) when response frequency starts to taper off, in my experience that will be in a few days. Also I really need to get over 30 responses to give any significance to the results- we're on a good pace so far.

2) 4.5amps at 12V is what we're projecting for a 2.5gph unit. We don't have much data yet for larger units but we expect the increase to be marginal and not linear, so for simplicity we ask survey takers to assume 4.5amps for all units. We're also using this data to select features we can control- since we can't easily manipulate power consumption we're note testing it here, but throwing a reference out there so people understand this is more of a clark pump/energy recovery competitor at @sailorboy1 said.

3) Your assumption was correct about solar panel size- a 100W solar panel runs our device with ease (12v x 4.5a = 54W). We use a foldable Jackery panel in testing.

Cheers,
-Bruce

[bruce.c]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I took the survey and even selected the units I would select if I had to.

But the thing is it looks that price and energy the OP systems are only going to appeal to the energy recovery user market (Clark pump type RO unit).

I agree with your assessment! How would you characterize sailors who are interested in those high-efficiency devices? Are there many or few? Is there a certain type of sailing they do, or a type of boat they tend to have?

[HeywoodJ]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

...But the thing is it looks that price and energy the OP systems are only going to appeal to the energy recovery user market (Clark pump type RO unit).

And according to the website it is about 4x as energy intensive as a Spectra WM (15-20Wh/l vs. 15Wh/gal for Spectra) for the same amount of money, so the sale will have to be on the "simpler" components and operation.


[/Edit]

Originally Posted by bruce.c

...2) 4.5amps at 12V is what we're projecting for a 2.5gph unit. We don't have much data yet for larger units but we expect the increase to be marginal and not linear, so for simplicity we ask survey takers to assume 4.5amps for all units....

That gets us into ~20-25Wh/gal, certainly more in the realm if it is real.

[Pete7]

Bruce,

Thank you for coming back to the forum and for putting your head above the parapet

Living in England, I hope I never actually need one of your products, because if I do then its all gone pear shaped.

However, you might be on to something interesting for the membership, so I wish you the best of luck. My initial thoughts are you can make a few expensive items to complete in a busy established market, or you can keep it simple, cut the costs and sell many more. Simple, lightweight and portable would be my choice.

Peter

[bruce.c]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

And according to the website it is about 4x as energy intensive as a Spectra WM (15-20Wh/l vs. 15Wh/gal for Spectra) for the same amount of money, so the sale will have to be on the "simpler" components and operation.
Attachment 267179

[/Edit]

That gets us into ~20-25Wh/gal, certainly more in the realm if it is real.

Glad you found the video! However, that prototype is from nearly 2 years ago, and efficiency is much improved since.

[Americat3014]

Hi Bruce,
Many people on this site are full time cruisers where running a watermaker every couple of days works well for an RO system. I hope to travel maybe 15 - 25% of the time with a week to a month between trips. That doesn't really work well for an RO system where it would be pickled often. With that schedule, people say it is better to fill tanks at marinas and avoid the cost and maintenance of an RO system. For me, your system sounds like a better option for the part time sailor.

[goboatingnow]

Never had problems getting water or crossing oceans without needing more water

[OldManMirage]

I did not take the survey yet but I checked out the "end" product ? Is the NONA actually available ? What is the cost ?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by bruce.c

I agree with your assessment! How would you characterize sailors who are interested in those high-efficiency devices? Are there many or few? Is there a certain type of sailing they do, or a type of boat they tend to have?

Since there are many manufacturers of a DC system with a "Clark" pump I would the market is pretty good for a marine product.

I would say that to me as one that has had one of those system the improvement you should focus on isn't that it doesn't use RO membrane, it is that it doesn't use a Clark pump. Membranes have few issues compared to the energy recovery pumps.

[fgd3]

The product concept is appealing but $6000 is too high a price to interest me.

[bruce.c]

We do not have any products available unfortunately, we are in research and development mode (this is part of the research). We're planning to begin selling in 2024 if all goes to plan. You can subscribe to our newsletter on the website for updates. We're also looking for beta testers.

[Sailmonkey]

I took the poll. If you could pull off a low pressure, membrane free desalinization unit with an output closer to 10gph for around 8k-10k USD I think you’d blow away the market.

Questions I would have would be

1. Susceptibility to turbidity?
2. Removal of pathogens?
3. Consumable parts/lifespan of the ion grid (or whatever actually does the desalinization)