Oil for Danfoss BD50 compressor

[MJ360]

Thanks Richard,

What is the cause of the compressor overheat and is it unique to Frigoboat systems? A number of vendors use the same Secop/Danfoss units.

If I were to replace the entire setup (not likely until availability improves), what manufacturers would you recommend?

[OzeLouie]

Originally Posted by MJ360

Thanks Richard,

What is the cause of the compressor overheat and is it unique to Frigoboat systems? A number of vendors use the same Secop/Danfoss units.

If I were to replace the entire setup (not likely until availability improves), what manufacturers would you recommend?

Overheating of a hermetic compressor is a result of an improperly engineered system or one that has been incorrectly repaired / serviced. Operating correctly these compressors do not have an overheating problem.

Cheers OzeLouie

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by MJ360

Thanks Richard,

What is the cause of the compressor overheat and is it unique to Frigoboat systems? A number of vendors use the same Secop/Danfoss units.

If I were to replace the entire setup (not likely until availability improves), what manufacturers would you recommend?

MJ360 I want to wait a few days before answering both of your questions. The sales of this Frigoboat keel cooler system seems to have out sold all other types. The problem you and a few others have had is a very small percentage almost isolated cases from the great numbers of units sold that are still trouble free. By waiting I would hope to hear from satisfied users of this keel cooler system. One thing I am sure of is these failures are a result of compressor overheating and not a Design fault as Louie describes.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by MJ360

Thanks OzeLouie! I had been hunting for the proper filter/drier, with no luck. The ones you recommend are readily available.

Do you recommend the flare version over sweat for purposes of easier replacement?

Hi, I’m not sure where you are located but I have the exact filter-drier you need for sale. It is pre-charged and has quick connect fittings for Frigoboat.

Edit: No, wait, they changed the filter in my link! The one I offer is the big can, not the small one.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ew-228761.html

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Hi, I’m not sure where you are located but I have the exact filter-drier you need for sale. It is pre-charged and has quick connect fittings for Frigoboat.

Edit: No, wait, they changed the filter in my link! The one I offer is the big can, not the small one.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ew-228761.html

I do not believe your filter dryer is a good answer for MJ360 because it is to small and changing filters in the past on his problem has not worked.
If he wants to try a filter as Louie suggests Amazon has a 1/4 inch APFD -032 Flared for $18.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

I do not believe your filter dryer is a good answer for MJ360 because it is to small and changing filters in the past on his problem has not worked.
If he wants to try a filter as Louie suggests Amazon has a 1/4 inch APFD -032 Flared for $18.

This is the filter drier I have… it’s pretty big?

Edit: I think it is the same element that you mean, except it has plumbing incl. Quick connects and is pre-filled.

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

This is the filter drier I have… it’s pretty big?

Edit: I think it is the same element that you mean, except it has plumbing incl. Quick connects and is pre-filled.

Yes that one is fine if connectors are Frigoboat. I still would recommend he flush system before using it. I remember Skip on Flyingpig tried changing filters and had many techs involved for months before replacing complete system, not to mention the dollars spent.

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by MJ360

Thanks Richard,

What is the cause of the compressor overheat and is it unique to Frigoboat systems? A number of vendors use the same Secop/Danfoss units.

If I were to replace the entire setup (not likely until availability improves), what manufacturers would you recommend?

MJ360 First question What is the cause of the compressor overheat and is it unique to Frigoboat systems? A number of vendors use the same Secop/Danfoss units.

If I were to replace the entire setup (not likely until availability improves), what manufacturers would you recommend.

Refrigeration hermetically sealed compressors must dispose of excess heat not removed by condenser. Each compressor has design limites provided by its manufacturer if any job shop assembles a refrigeration system for this compressor need to respect that compressor operating limits.The Danfoss BD50 compressor or its application specification sheet makes no mention of water cooling at all. This compressor and electronic control module requires forced fan air cooling. Larger hermetic compressors are installed with temperature,pressure automatic power shutoff, in case the manufactures protective limits are exceeded. The only protection for the Danfoss BD compressor is condenser fan amperage is within normal limits. Keel cooler systems do not utilize this safety circuit.

MJ, Other boaters and many technicians have failed in their attempts to solve this problem created by overheating of compressor oil. There have been attempts to replace the evaporator more than three times on the same boat, filter dryers were added several times with larger filters and one machine shop cut the dome off the compressor and removed and cleaned the compressor assembly. If it is possible to sterilize and clean all components in a complete refrigerant loop this problem could be eliminated.

Refrigerant Filters are designed to collect solid material above the size of 4 micron. The damaged oil in high pressure side interring to capillary tube transformers this contaminated liquid from solid liquid allowing contaminants to crystallize and start restricting flow while inside the outlet end of cap tube. The first sign indicating a problem would be poor cooling performance indicating loss of refrigerant, solution at that point is add refrigerant to bring back normal performance. In one case this problem and solution was repeated several times resulting in the end where the current draw of this system reached 18 amps to get normal cooling. Two boaters sent me their complete length of cap tub and aluminum at the evaporator, I Found cristales in over a two foot length of tube starting at the evaporator end.
I ran a search of my hard drives and found 200 emails and forum posts regarding this problem,I met with their company engineer about an oil overheating problem who did not consider it a problem. I contacted his home office and was informed there was a screen before enterring cap tube which I did not find on either the cap tube or lines I examined.
This Keel Cooler system is a good and efficient system with thousands installed in the right applications where compressor limits are not exceeded.

What is the cause of the compressor overheating and is it unique to Frigoboat systems?
There are a number of reasons these water cooled systems fail and it is not due to its design, there are only a very small number that are destroyed by overheated compressor oil:
Overly warm seawater temperature 24/7 for extended periods is less efficient than a correctly designed and correctly installed fan air cooling 24/7 condensing units in tropical conditions.
Failure to add additional compressor fan cooling when in tropical seawater temperature .
Running refrigeration while the boat is out of water.
Refrigerator Box too large for the size of the refrigeration system.
Failure to understand the heat reduction provided at lower compressor speeds.

Ignoring the fact that high refrigerant pressures may exceed the normal amperage draw of a system, pressure above 120 psi high side liquid or amps over 6.5 amps or loss of refrigerant are all warning signals of possible trouble.

Second question, what system do I recommend?
Over the last 35 years I have recommended every ice box conversion refrigeration unit for sale at least once. There are one hundred ice box conversion component options today to select from. To make any recommendation the input of what the owner has in mind for box interior area temperatures, must come first. A minimum of 2.5 inches of insulation is required also interior box size in cubic feet and inside dimensions. Boater must indicate if they plan on bluewater cruising and worst future cruising climate possible conditions. This is enough information to size the refrigeration components and daily energy that will be required to support refrigeration.

There a number standards I use in my selection of these refrigeration systems since there no common industry standards. MJ, Other boaters and many technicians have failed in their attempts to solve this problem created by overheating of compressor oil. There have been attempts to replace the evaporator more than three times on the same boat, filter dryers were added several times with larger filters and one machine shop cut the dome off the compressor and removed and cleaned the compressor assembly. If it is possible to sterilize and clean all components in a complete refrigerant loop this problem could be eliminated.

Refrigerant Filters are designed to collect solid material above the size of 4 micron. The damaged oil in high pressure side interring to capillary tube transformers this contaminated liquid from solid liquid allowing contaminants to crystallize and start restricting flow while inside the outlet end of cap tube. The first sign indicating a problem would be poor cooling performance indicating loss of refrigerant, solution at that point is add refrigerant to bring back normal performance. In one case this problem and solution was repeated several times resulting in the end where the current draw of this system reached 18 amps to get normal cooling. Two boaters sent me their complete length of cap tub and aluminum at the evaporator, I Found cristales in over a two foot length of tube starting at the evaporator end.
I ran a search of my hard drives and found 200 emails and forum posts regarding this problem,I met with their company engineer about an oil overheating problem who did not consider it a problem. I contacted his home office and was informed there was a screen before enterring cap tube which I did not find on either the cap tube or lines I examined.
This Keel Cooler system is a good and efficient system with thousands installed in the right applications where compressor limits are not exceeded.

I developed base line standards for selecting the right size and type refrigeration for every pleasure boat using simple guidelines. These are my standards I follow when calculating a design including a correction after basic math is finished:
Design for ideal box temperature and different temperatures within the same box or in case there is more than one box. Small box designed for two temperature normally best designed with box (bin) evaporators. Actual desires temperatures: Refrigerator-34 F, Drink cooler-45 F, four week freezer if already frozen-15 F, Long term freezer-minus 10 to plus 8 F.
Btu calculation for each cubic foot of refrigerated box, Refrigerator 600 Btu per cubic ft, Freezer 1200 Btu per cubic ft. Addition 1,000 Btu for each person above two, Door on box add 15 Btu for each inch of door seal.
The above total daily calculated Btu consumed is based on worst case tropical conditions for a typical displacement hull sailboat, Ninety air and water temperatures. These worst case daily conditions for either Btu or equivalent amperage based on your actual climate temperatures, by reducing worst case totals 2% per each degree warmer than 90 degrees F. Approximately 25 degrees cooler will cut power consumption in half.

Determine if possible the number of reported satisfied customers who have provided detailed comments on system and manufacturer you might recommend.
Is this unit repairable or maybe expendable like an electric coffee maker throwing it away and buying a new one when there is a problem ?
Are parts available to repair it anywhere locally where they plan to travel to?
Is the unit I might recommend meeting the (KISS) requirement Keeping It Simple enough the Captain can operate and maintain it?
Are there any information documents or parts on this unit that are held proprietary by anyone? The days of requiring manufacturers of supporting products for ten years are no longer are in effect.
My Experience proves when developing purchase specifications Creative Marketing with charts and pictures will not produce the know-how to make a smart decision.
There are other things to look for when selecting pleasure boat refrigeration units. Are the components designed well enough to work where they need to be installed in the planed the planed boat? Some condensing units are not designed to dispose of processed heat to another area. After the correct size compressor condensing unit for this conceptual unit are defined it may be difficult to find a matching Btu evaporator.

[Richard Kollmann]

Here is my Slide Show link that answers both the earlier thread question over Keeping It Simple and How to select the correct pleasure boat replacement refrigeration system.

[url]https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=252276&stc=1&d=1643829 649[/url)

The BOOKS mentioned are no longer available.

[OzeLouie]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

MJ360 First question What is the cause of the compressor overheat and is it unique to Frigoboat systems? A number of vendors use the same Secop/Danfoss units.

If I were to replace the entire setup (not likely until availability improves), what manufacturers would you recommend.

Refrigeration hermetically sealed compressors must dispose of excess heat not removed by condenser. Each compressor has design limites provided by its manufacturer if any job shop assembles a refrigeration system for this compressor need to respect that compressor operating limits.The Danfoss BD50 compressor or its application specification sheet makes no mention of water cooling at all. This compressor and electronic control module requires forced fan air cooling. Larger hermetic compressors are installed with temperature,pressure automatic power shutoff, in case the manufactures protective limits are exceeded. The only protection for the Danfoss BD compressor is condenser fan amperage is within normal limits. Keel cooler systems do not utilize this safety circuit.

MJ, Other boaters and many technicians have failed in their attempts to solve this problem created by overheating of compressor oil. There have been attempts to replace the evaporator more than three times on the same boat, filter dryers were added several times with larger filters and one machine shop cut the dome off the compressor and removed and cleaned the compressor assembly. If it is possible to sterilize and clean all components in a complete refrigerant loop this problem could be eliminated.

Refrigerant Filters are designed to collect solid material above the size of 4 micron. The damaged oil in high pressure side interring to capillary tube transformers this contaminated liquid from solid liquid allowing contaminants to crystallize and start restricting flow while inside the outlet end of cap tube. The first sign indicating a problem would be poor cooling performance indicating loss of refrigerant, solution at that point is add refrigerant to bring back normal performance. In one case this problem and solution was repeated several times resulting in the end where the current draw of this system reached 18 amps to get normal cooling. Two boaters sent me their complete length of cap tub and aluminum at the evaporator, I Found cristales in over a two foot length of tube starting at the evaporator end.
I ran a search of my hard drives and found 200 emails and forum posts regarding this problem,I met with their company engineer about an oil overheating problem who did not consider it a problem. I contacted his home office and was informed there was a screen before enterring cap tube which I did not find on either the cap tube or lines I examined.
This Keel Cooler system is a good and efficient system with thousands installed in the right applications where compressor limits are not exceeded.

What is the cause of the compressor overheating and is it unique to Frigoboat systems?
There are a number of reasons these water cooled systems fail and it is not due to its design, there are only a very small number that are destroyed by overheated compressor oil:
Overly warm seawater temperature 24/7 for extended periods is less efficient than a correctly designed and correctly installed fan air cooling 24/7 condensing units in tropical conditions.
Failure to add additional compressor fan cooling when in tropical seawater temperature .
Running refrigeration while the boat is out of water.
Refrigerator Box too large for the size of the refrigeration system.
Failure to understand the heat reduction provided at lower compressor speeds.

Ignoring the fact that high refrigerant pressures may exceed the normal amperage draw of a system, pressure above 120 psi high side liquid or amps over 6.5 amps or loss of refrigerant are all warning signals of possible trouble.

Second question, what system do I recommend?
Over the last 35 years I have recommended every ice box conversion refrigeration unit for sale at least once. There are one hundred ice box conversion component options today to select from. To make any recommendation the input of what the owner has in mind for box interior area temperatures, must come first. A minimum of 2.5 inches of insulation is required also interior box size in cubic feet and inside dimensions. Boater must indicate if they plan on bluewater cruising and worst future cruising climate possible conditions. This is enough information to size the refrigeration components and daily energy that will be required to support refrigeration.

There a number standards I use in my selection of these refrigeration systems since there no common industry standards. MJ, Other boaters and many technicians have failed in their attempts to solve this problem created by overheating of compressor oil. There have been attempts to replace the evaporator more than three times on the same boat, filter dryers were added several times with larger filters and one machine shop cut the dome off the compressor and removed and cleaned the compressor assembly. If it is possible to sterilize and clean all components in a complete refrigerant loop this problem could be eliminated.

Refrigerant Filters are designed to collect solid material above the size of 4 micron. The damaged oil in high pressure side interring to capillary tube transformers this contaminated liquid from solid liquid allowing contaminants to crystallize and start restricting flow while inside the outlet end of cap tube. The first sign indicating a problem would be poor cooling performance indicating loss of refrigerant, solution at that point is add refrigerant to bring back normal performance. In one case this problem and solution was repeated several times resulting in the end where the current draw of this system reached 18 amps to get normal cooling. Two boaters sent me their complete length of cap tub and aluminum at the evaporator, I Found cristales in over a two foot length of tube starting at the evaporator end.
I ran a search of my hard drives and found 200 emails and forum posts regarding this problem,I met with their company engineer about an oil overheating problem who did not consider it a problem. I contacted his home office and was informed there was a screen before enterring cap tube which I did not find on either the cap tube or lines I examined.
This Keel Cooler system is a good and efficient system with thousands installed in the right applications where compressor limits are not exceeded.

I developed base line standards for selecting the right size and type refrigeration for every pleasure boat using simple guidelines. These are my standards I follow when calculating a design including a correction after basic math is finished:
Design for ideal box temperature and different temperatures within the same box or in case there is more than one box. Small box designed for two temperature normally best designed with box (bin) evaporators. Actual desires temperatures: Refrigerator-34 F, Drink cooler-45 F, four week freezer if already frozen-15 F, Long term freezer-minus 10 to plus 8 F.
Btu calculation for each cubic foot of refrigerated box, Refrigerator 600 Btu per cubic ft, Freezer 1200 Btu per cubic ft. Addition 1,000 Btu for each person above two, Door on box add 15 Btu for each inch of door seal.
The above total daily calculated Btu consumed is based on worst case tropical conditions for a typical displacement hull sailboat, Ninety air and water temperatures. These worst case daily conditions for either Btu or equivalent amperage based on your actual climate temperatures, by reducing worst case totals 2% per each degree warmer than 90 degrees F. Approximately 25 degrees cooler will cut power consumption in half.

Determine if possible the number of reported satisfied customers who have provided detailed comments on system and manufacturer you might recommend.
Is this unit repairable or maybe expendable like an electric coffee maker throwing it away and buying a new one when there is a problem ?
Are parts available to repair it anywhere locally where they plan to travel to?
Is the unit I might recommend meeting the (KISS) requirement Keeping It Simple enough the Captain can operate and maintain it?
Are there any information documents or parts on this unit that are held proprietary by anyone? The days of requiring manufacturers of supporting products for ten years are no longer are in effect.
My Experience proves when developing purchase specifications Creative Marketing with charts and pictures will not produce the know-how to make a smart decision.
There are other things to look for when selecting pleasure boat refrigeration units. Are the components designed well enough to work where they need to be installed in the planed the planed boat? Some condensing units are not designed to dispose of processed heat to another area. After the correct size compressor condensing unit for this conceptual unit are defined it may be difficult to find a matching Btu evaporator.

WOW, so pleased we only got your KISS version Richard!

As I stated previously quote: "Overheating of a hermetic compressor is a result of an improperly engineered system or one that has been incorrectly repaired / serviced.
Operating correctly these compressors do not have an overheating problem." (Who has ever replaced the compressor on the fridge at home because of ‘overheating’ My bet is NO-ONE!)

This is the understanding of those who follow the Refrigeration industry practices and protocols.

A hermetic compressor may overheat if the system is allowed to run long term after losing gas charge or the uncontrolled condensing fails. These situations can only occur if as quoted “improperly engineered system or one that has been incorrectly repaired / serviced”

If that is possible as when used in a marine system, the condenser temperature should be controlled and the compressor protected with over temperature fail-safe shut down. Unfortunately only one or two of the better systems offer this protection.

So simply fit a temp cut off klixon thermal switch if concerned. (About $6.00)

Cheers OzeLouie

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by OzeLouie

WOW, so pleased we only got your KISS version Richard!

As I stated previously quote: "Overheating of a hermetic compressor is a result of an improperly engineered system or one that has been incorrectly repaired / serviced.
Operating correctly these compressors do not have an overheating problem." (Who has ever replaced the compressor on the fridge at home because of ‘overheating’ My bet is NO-ONE!)

This is the understanding of those who follow the Refrigeration industry practices and protocols.

A hermetic compressor may overheat if the system is allowed to run long term after losing gas charge or the uncontrolled condensing fails. These situations can only occur if as quoted “improperly engineered system or one that has been incorrectly repaired / serviced”

If that is possible as when used in a marine system, the condenser temperature should be controlled and the compressor protected with over temperature fail-safe shut down. Unfortunately only one or two of the better systems offer this protection.

So simply fit a temp cut off klixon thermal switch if concerned. (About $6.00)

Cheers OzeLouie

Louie you continue to quote your personal standards but there are no industry standards per say in world wide mobile refrigeration repair. It is true we have read and learned in our training certain practices. You believe theories are better than actual facts when trying to sell yourself. I am now as I have done in this thread, ignoring you from attempts to close the thread and communicated directly with the boater needing help by Privat Mail.

[weavis]

This not a forum for spats and disagreements between members. At this point it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, it just has to stop.
Thread closed.