PowerSurvivor 40E or 80E ?

[SvenG]

We're almost certainly going with the Katadyn products mainly due to their wide use but also because they seem to have a solid reputation.

Right now the question is if we should go with the 40E or the 80E. Time for a trade study

The 40E is one BOAT cheaper but it has the manual power option.

The 80E would mean fewer hours of noise when we use it.

How would the maintenance costs compare ... larger unit but fewer hours vs. smaller unit but more hours ... ?

Thanks,



-Sven

[Tellie]

Katadyn makes a decent watermaker. But they are anemic on performance. I wouldn't even begin to recommend a 40E for a cruiser The manual feature is nothing you'll use. If you're concerned about being set adrift pack a good O6 in your ditch bag it's far more paractical. At the bare minumum get the 80E. Or better yet the 160E. From a lot of experiance, you'll be happier with a bigger unit.

[SvenG]

Tellie,

Originally Posted by Tellie

Or better yet the 160E. From a lot of experiance, you'll be happier with a bigger unit.

Because of the reduced runtime or less wear per gallon or ... ?

Thanks,



-Sven

[foamcore]

I singlehanded with a 40-E and found it to be just right for me. Enough water to live with and to fresh water rinse the boat plastics and engines. Ran it 2-3 times a week for 4-6 hours. No issues at all with it. I'd buy another in a heart beat if I come to need a maker again.

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by foamcore

Ran it 2-3 times a week for 4-6 hours.

For clarification ... 4-6 hours 2 to 3 times a week or a total of 4-6 hours per week ? I'd have to assume the former but just want to make sure you weren't just carrying a lot water.



-Sven

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by SvenG

Tellie,



Because of the reduced runtime or less wear per gallon or ... ?

Thanks,



-Sven

Yes, reduced run time and wear is always a consideration on any boat system. The nature of the beast is that once you have a watermaker your water usage will go up. E-Bay, Craigs list, etc. always have second hand 40, and 80s. Many times because people move up to larger units once they get used to the idea of a watermaker on board. It's far more expensive to move up than to buy the right sized watermaker for your needs in the first place. A 40E on a 39' sailboat is undersized.

[foamcore]

Every two or three days I would turn the maker on for four to six hours. Around 12 to 15 gal per week. I took salty showers and rinsed with fresh. Clearly, I was frugal with water but that is the way I am. Others will vary. Tellie, I don't understand the relationship between boat length and watermaker capacity that you make.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by foamcore

Every two or three days I would turn the maker on for four to six hours. Around 12 to 15 gal per week. I took salty showers and rinsed with fresh. Clearly, I was frugal with water but that is the way I am. Others will vary. Tellie, I don't understand the relationship between boat length and watermaker capacity that you make.

Fair question. Usually a 39' boat will have about 80 to 200 gallons of holding capacity depending on the boat. As you stated you are very frugal using about two gallons a day. But in reality most people when they invest in a watermaker are not looking to be anywhere near that frugal when they have that much holding capacity. A 40E at about 1.7 gph would struggle at best running hours on end to keep up with that much capacity. If you add a second crew, especially a wife, two gallons a day is almost basic survial rations. The benifits of more water making capacity far out weigh the cost savings. Like I said to Sven, the nature of the beast is that most people will use more water once they have a watermaker on board. If you were on a 26' sail boat with 30-40 gallons holding capacity knowing you have no choice but to be very careful and frugal with water then a 40E would probably meet the needs. Putting a 40E on a 39' boat is like putting a 3.5hp outboard on it. It will push it to be sure, but once you start running into all the variables that you'll encounter you won't be happy with the results. Sizing a watermaker to a particular boat and owner takes a lot of consideration and understanding of wants, desires, and needs, both of the owner and the boat. The 40E is a good unit for what it is designed for. But it is not designed for a 39' boat and an owner that probably is looking for a bit more comfort than very minimalistic capacity.

[foamcore]

Well, we can agree that I am frugal. That boat had a 400L. tank but it was a cat and behaved poorly with that much weight so I didn't fill it more than half full. Also I wanted to run the maker on solar. I never had a shore power cord for that boat. Yup, I'm frugal

[SvenG]

You both raise really good points that has made me consider how we would be using the watermaker more carefully.

I had assumed that we would rely upon our 80 gallons of shore supplied water most of the time and only use the watermaker to top that up during long (3-4 week ?) passages and to keep the unit exercised. We too are reasonably frugal when living a life of abundance on a mooring, using around 40-60 gallons of utility water per 10-days without being too stingy and around 10 gallons of drinking-cooking water during that same time.

That's about 7 gallons per day for two without starting to ration our use (freely dribbling fresh water for dish washing and rinsing).

The bottom line is that I think you are both right and that for us the 80 is the right choice for the two of us. A separate (expensive :-( ) emergency desalinator for when everything hits the fan, stored in the liferaft.

Thanks, that really helped.



-Sven

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by SvenG

That's about 7 gallons per day for two without starting to ration our use (freely dribbling fresh water for dish washing and rinsing).

Sven, Viv and I use about the same in NW Europe. Since good quality water is always available we don't worry to much about the quantity we use and don't need a WM.

However, have you thought about what to do if you travel off the beaten track to somewhere more remote or areas with suspect local water. You might want to run the WM more rather than risk putting in local water into the tanks. At least water thats been through a WM has been seriously filtered.

The Katadyns would be our choice too, but only due to the space we have available and cost.

Pete

[Mark Johnson]

Our 40-E is 21 years old and still runs fine on the original membrane. (I'm told it was "luck", however). It is great for cruisers like us who go with energy / water / fuel "conservation", rather than more "production" & consumption, and we make only about 3 gallons a day. This easily covers drinking / cooking, dish rinsing, (after a salt water wash), and our evening shower, (using a pump up, black plastic, solar heated garden sprayer.) The "conservation" route is just as comfortable, but requires more discipline and vigilance. It is from two to three times less expensive, if figured over a 10 year period, and the only way we could afford to to go cruising at all!

When doing a lot of diving, the rinsing of gear makes this 3 gal / day go up. In this case, we use the jugs of fresh, but not potable rainwater, that we pumped out of the dinghy after the last rain. (or similar water from the local village)...

If you use twice the amount that we do, you might prefer the 80-E? This is as long as you are still using it about every day, which they prefer... For the same volume of water, the run time would be less with the 80, but the a/h per gallon used should be about the same. I would also think that the maintenance on the filters, PER GALLON produced, not per hour, would be the same, as it is X amount of water flow through the filters that clogs them with silt, not X number of hours. You should confirm this however...

It is not necessarily a consensus of opinion, but I use and recommend the "silt reduction option", (even if you save $ by using your own components). This will up the filter maintenance a bit, but better protect the more expensive pump and membrane.

There is a VOLUME of information on these in previous threads...
Hope this helps, Mark

[Mark Johnson]

BTW, I have a hand operated "original 35", that I'd part with for $200. It should have a seal replacement, "just due to age", and needs a membrane. Defender has good prices on these parts... The total investment would then be about $700, for an essentially new $2,000 hand operated emergency water maker. If interested, send me a PM, Mark

[foggysail]

GEEZ! I thought Wifey and I were frugal getting by in our old sailboat by stretching our 30 gallon water supply to 4 days. Heck, now we carry 100 gallons and it lasts all of about 3 days.

My watermaker that I have scheduled to install this summer will make 35-40 gallons/hour! If I was purchasing a watermaker, I would go as large as I could afford consistent with my available space. My thoughts are in camp with Tellie's. Why be soooo Spartan???

Foggy

[Mark Johnson]

The thing is that you should not use it to fill your tanks! You should use it to "top off" your tank every day, and replace only what you used the day before. This way, by running it an hour or two every day, it will last much longer. Also... by keeping your tanks full, you are not sticking your neck out in the event of a watermaker failure. You just go into ULTRA conservation mode, and your tank water will last for weeks, until you get to another water supply. Watermakers are wonderful machines, but I would never risk my very existence on one.

We find that a 2.5 gallon black plastic garden sprayer, with a dish washing nozzle attached, is perfect. It heats up in the sun, and it is good for two cockpit showers right at sundown. This is plenty for the two of us, washing hair and all! It is not roughing it at all, and lessens the moisture below, which only makes the cabin less comfortable.

Conservation... as I said, is just easier, and a third the cost and complication of the common alternative. You just have to learn the tricks, so that it isn't like camping! This applies equally well to a land based lifestyle.

We are in out late 50s, and this has worked great for us for 15 years... Of coarse we are trimariners, "the backpackers of the sea".

Mark