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Therapy · 25-10-2009, 17:23

When I brought the boat home in April the joker valve was not working well.

I replaced it and it lasted about two months.

I replaced it again.

It has been a little over a month and is not working again.

The boat and head is not used that much. Every 2nd or 3rd weekend for a few days and some day sails mixed in.

When I leave the boat I flush with fresh water and the last bit through has a little oil and vinegar like I have read here on CF.

Is there another maker of these things that last longer?

Am I doing something wrong here?

I only takes a few minutes to change one out but every month or so is ridiculous to me.

delmarrey · 25-10-2009, 17:34

Are you using the Raritan brand valve?
And are you flushing it dry when you leave it. If, not are you closing off your thru-hull valve?

Back pressure from temperature change could be causing distortion. Try running really hot water through it before giving up on it.

Therapy · 25-10-2009, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Are you using the Raritan brand valve?

Yes

And are you flushing it dry when you leave it. Yes

If, not are you closing off your thru-hull valve? Yes, the valve selects raw or fresh or off. I switch to fresh and when done I switch to off.

Back pressure from temperature change could be causing distortion. Try running really hot water through it before giving up on it.

I will write that one down but have never heard of it before.

Thanks.

scotte · 26-10-2009, 19:41

You didn't mention which Raritan head, so I'll guess it's the PH-II. If so, the problem is most likely that you are tightening down the flange too tight. It's got some big bolts and nuts that tempt you to tighten them tight, but you want to tighten the flange JUST until no water and no air leaks (you see the former, hear the later). This advice is straight from Raritan when I had a similar problem (and burned through $60 worth of valves in months).

At some point they changed the design of the joker valve such that the base is thicker - and to compensate for that, you cannot tighten the flange down as much as you could with the old jokers or it deforms the valve.

Therapy · 26-10-2009, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotte

You didn't mention which Raritan head, so I'll guess it's the PH-II. If so, the problem is most likely that you are tightening down the flange too tight. It's got some big bolts and nuts that tempt you to tighten them tight, but you want to tighten the flange JUST until no water and no air leaks (you see the former, hear the later). This advice is straight from Raritan when I had a similar problem (and burned through $60 worth of valves in months).

At some point they changed the design of the joker valve such that the base is thicker - and to compensate for that, you cannot tighten the flange down as much as you could with the old jokers or it deforms the valve.

Correct. It is the newer one with the C253 valve.
Thanks for that.
I will put the next one in with just a little tightening.
They are big bolts for sure.
I did not tighten it much I thought because the flange parts do not touch but hey, what do I know.

Quote:

you see the former, Yuk for sure. hear the later I can deal with that.

scotte · 27-10-2009, 09:22

Yep, the flange parts won't be close to touching at all, leaving it looking not right, but it is.

I really like Raritan's products and their support, but I wish they would have bothered to put a little sheet in with their parts explaining this, since they've known about it for a long time! Oh well...

Therapy · 27-10-2009, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotte

Yep, the flange parts won't be close to touching at all, leaving it looking not right, but it is.

I really like Raritan's products and their support, but I wish they would have bothered to put a little sheet in with their parts explaining this, since they've known about it for a long time! Oh well...

All right. We will see starting Monday.

We plan to poop.......er sail south for half the week and then back home the last half.

cabo_sailor · 27-10-2009, 13:59

Yep, overtightening is a common problem. I learned about it from Peggy Hall, whom I think designed the PHII. My joker valves last a lot longer now.

Rich

Therapy · 28-10-2009, 15:57

I was thinking last night that when the valve fails it is obviously not closing all the way and has been distorted toward the "open" position.

If this problem is caused by over tightening then it seems to me that rotating the valve 90 deg. would help it stay in the "closed" position.

Just thinking.

And by the way. should it be mounted with the flapper in the horizontal or vertical position? I have not noted anything saying it matters.

Thanks.

edit - the exploded view shows it vertical which makes sense in my mind about the "open" vs "closed" idea.
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/...Ephiiv0303.pdf

Cap · 23-11-2009, 12:00

Hi All,

I've been having problems with the joker valve collapsing when flushing. Has anyone had this issue? It seems to flush fine with just liquid, but when toilet paper is used, and by that I mean no solids, the joker valve inverted for some reason, like its being sucked backwards. This has happened twice. The first time there was some kind of pressure build up and when I pulled the handle up, it broke the handle yoke. The second time the valve just inverted with no other damage. I ordered another valve thinking a worn valve might be the issue, but would hate to put in a new one only to find it’s still happening. It may be an over tightening issue causing this and I will definitely be careful not to tighten too much, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks…Jeff

R_C · 23-11-2009, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therapy

I was thinking last night that when the valve fails it is obviously not closing all the way and has been distorted toward the "open" position.

If this problem is caused by over tightening then it seems to me that rotating the valve 90 deg. would help it stay in the "closed" position.

Just thinking.

And by the way. should it be mounted with the flapper in the horizontal or vertical position? I have not noted anything saying it matters.

Thanks.

edit - the exploded view shows it vertical which makes sense in my mind about the "open" vs "closed" idea.
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/...Ephiiv0303.pdf

I once noticed that hard deposits had attached to the bottom half of the valve when it was installed horizontally. The deposits had distorted the valve so it would no longer completely close. Now, I always install it vertically which seems more logical since gravity and deposits aren't as likely to pull the valve open.

delmarrey · 23-11-2009, 16:20

There is a check valve #1228CW. If it's blocked it can cause the joker to reverse. When you pull up it pulls thru the check valve and when you push down it forces it thru the joker valve. For large amounts of TP one should use a plastic trash bag or paper sack if you out at sea, then it can be thrown over the side.

http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/...Ephiiv0303.pdf

Cap · 24-11-2009, 05:31

Thank you for the replies. I will put the valve in vertically, and check the flapper for any obstructions.

Have a great day...Jeff

Therapy · 24-11-2009, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_C

I once noticed that hard deposits had attached to the bottom half of the valve when it was installed horizontally. The deposits had distorted the valve so it would no longer completely close. Now, I always install it vertically which seems more logical since gravity and deposits aren't as likely to pull the valve open.

I spoke to someone at Raritan and they did not have an answer to my original problem of them not lasting and when I commented on the vertical position of the diagram he said that most have the best luck when it is mounted in the horizontal position.

So now I know nuttin'