Redoing my bilge pumps (3 questions)

[Squanderbucks]

See if this meets your needs A single controller for 2 pumps.
EFS20 Dual Bilge Pump Controller and Electronic Float Switch
Made in New Zelanko by CruzPro. I don’t have this particular item but use several of their other products.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by HarrisonM

All great replies thanks.....

Rather than using a "Rule" bilge pump that sits on the hull and potentially in the water is there a good alternative bilge pump with an intake hose I could run to the lowest point in the bilge so the pump will not be sitting in water?

Thanks...

As I wrote in the previous post, the Whale IC makes a great everyday de-watering pump: https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/pr...dlyID=Bilge-IC

Greg

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Pete7

And Abe

We also followed his approach, separate pumps and switches, separate discharge hoses. Drilling a new hole in the top sides isn't for the faint hearted but it solved the problem and kept the new second hose down to abut 10 feet in length.

We have a 3rd small pump under the engine, likely the source of the water in the first place. Little auto pump discharges into the cockpit so people get wet feet and therefore might investigate if there is a problem.

Pete

LOL!! Getting wet feet is definitely a show-stopper of an alarm! What a concept! Now I'm thinking if I'm sleeping in my bunk, a little shower just on my face would be a great way to alert me to high bilge water!

[GordMay]

Well said, Greg.
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3443845

Originally Posted by HarrisonM

All great replies thanks.....
Rather than using a "Rule" bilge pump that sits on the hull and potentially in the water is there a good alternative bilge pump with an intake hose I could run to the lowest point in the bilge so the pump will not be sitting in water?
Thanks...

Yes, Diaphragm Pumps:
If you want a dry bilge, the only way to get one is with a diaphragm pump, and your best option there, are the PAR pumps* (Short for Peters And Russell, now ITT Jabsco/Xylem). They are less reliable, but they have the advantage of being repairable, whereas Rule pumps are not. I don't recommend PAR pumps as anything but secondary pumps for dewatering [for which they are ideal], as their capacity is very low, usually 6 GPM or less.

Compared to conventional centrifugal pumps, diaphragm pumps have some cons worth noting. Because they have more moving parts, they need to be monitored more closely. In addition, a pre-strainer is needed because solids can force the check valves to remain open, causing reduced efficiency or a failure to prime. Diaphragm pumps have more components that can fail, but, unlike most centrifugal pumps, they can be rebuilt. So be sure to have key parts such as the belt drive, check valves, and diaphragm on board.

* See ➥ https://www.jabscoshop.com/marine/pu...aphragm-pumps/

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Anders

A bilge pump should never be off so wire both pumps directly to separate float switches with a push button to operate the lower pump when you want to check if there is any water in the bilge. The on-off-auto switches makes no sence at all to me.

Generally, I agree. I have off positions on the lowest level pumps on my boat as sometimes it's convenient to disable a pump while cleaning or something. But any of the higher level pumps can only be disabled with a fuse or breaker.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Well said, Greg.
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3443845


Yes, Diaphragm Pumps:
If you want a dry bilge, the only way to get one is with a diaphragm pump, and your best option there, are the PAR pumps* (Short for Peters And Russell, now ITT Jabsco/Xylem). They are less reliable, but they have the advantage of being repairable, whereas Rule pumps are not. I don't recommend PAR pumps as anything but secondary pumps for dewatering [for which they are ideal], as their capacity is very low, usually 6 GPM or less.

Compared to conventional centrifugal pumps, diaphragm pumps have some cons worth noting. Because they have more moving parts, they need to be monitored more closely. In addition, a pre-strainer is needed because solids can force the check valves to remain open, causing reduced efficiency or a failure to prime. Diaphragm pumps have more components that can fail, but, unlike most centrifugal pumps, they can be rebuilt. So be sure to have key parts such as the belt drive, check valves, and diaphragm on board.

* See ➥ https://www.jabscoshop.com/marine/pu...aphragm-pumps/

Personally, I prefer the Whale Gulper pumps over the PAR type. In my experience they're more reliable (although a bit lower capacity) and they'll also process hair and small solids without issue, so no strainer needed.

[HarrisonM]

One more question on getting power from the batteries....

I was going to run wires from the battery to a "busbar" and from there branch it to the bilge pumps, high water alarm, smoke & monoxide detectors. This will bypass the panel completely. When I connect to the batteries I assume I should connect across the entire bank of batteries?????

Thanks....

[Allied39]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, dont care to read through all that.

Smooth bore hose. Very very important.

[waterman46]

From the wording of your post it sounds like you may have two 12V house battery banks and hopefully a selector switch for Batt 1, Batt2, Both or Of and a third battery for engine starting. Power to all the 12V circuit breakers should be a connection to the Common or Switched terminal of that switch (as opposed to a direct battery connection). Same as the connection to your existing 12V panel. So the pumps, etc. will get power from one or the other or both house battery banks as you select. When you leave the boat, switch off any circuits you don't need to have on all the time but leave the battery selector on both for maximum operation of bilge pumps in event shore power battery charger is not connected or not working.

I would want a sub-panel or at least a well marked location to mount a switched circuit breaker for each of those new pumps, alarms, etc.

[DanielI]

Originally Posted by HarrisonM

I was going to run wires from the battery to a "busbar" and from there branch it to the bilge pumps, high water alarm, smoke & monoxide detectors. This will bypass the panel completely. When I connect to the batteries I assume I should connect across the entire bank of batteries?????

Maybe I’m missing what you mean, but if you attach this busbar to both batteries, without any selector switch, that will have the effect of permanently paralleling you banks, overriding your normal selector switch. I hope that is not what you meant.

[HarrisonM]

Thanks for replies....

Well yes that was what I was thinking. Last night I was doing some more research and now I am in doubt about doing it that way. Attached is a diagram I create of it. Please no art critics... LOL I have never done this before and want to make sure I am doing it right. Greatly appreciate all the great feed back.

[waterman46]

HarrisonM: Thread got a little off topic with your question but I'll try to help. What you show will work OK, but isn't quite up the normal way a boat should be wired, as far as I understand. Sounds like you could benefit from one of the several good books available on electrical systems for boats.

Do you have a main battery disconnect switch in your boat? That switch is for safety and should be inserted in your diagram between the battery + and anything else.

If you don't have a main battery disconnect switch, then you could add a circuit breaker/switch in your diagram between the battery and the bus bar. It will have to have current rating large enough to handle all loads on the bus bar being switched on at the same time, probably 20A but look a the pump specs.

One point to remember is that any circuit breaker can only protect for shorts in the wiring that are on the downstream or load side of that breaker. So if you add any breakers or switches it's best to minimize wiring lengths between the them and the battery.

[CarinaPDX]

Wiring a boat has become a complex problem if you wish to meet ABYC standards. First, any wire coming off the positive battery terminal must have a fuse at or near the battery terminal. The best solution is to use an MRBF (Marine Rated Battery Fuse); while the fuse holders are available through Blue Seas they can be bought for 1/3 the price from Allied Electronics as an Eaton part. Then, just outside the battery box, there should be a shut-off switch, or a battery selector switch that can also shut off both batteries. Then you would have a buss bar and fuses/breakers for each circuit. However, safety equipment (including bilge pumps) which must be left powered can be connected to the battery side of the shut-off/selector switch through an appropriately sized fuse. In this case you probably want to rig an ON-OFF-AUTO switch to the bilge pump/sensor.

Greg

[HarrisonM]

More great feed back!!! Thanks...

I absolutely want to do this right and follow all best practices and standards. I did do a little research on marine bilge wiring and have been following the below as a guide. "Rules of Thumb for Bilge Pump Installations" It is old but seems logical.... It shows wiring directly from the batteries with fuses on the positive (+) line. The youtube video does show wiring the busbars to the battery switch. My assumption was these are just different ways to do this.

Rules of Thumb for Bilge Pump Installations
https://www.practical-sailor.com/wp-...BILGE-PUMP.pdf

BASIC BOAT DUAL BATTERY WIRING | HOW TO
https://youtu.be/8HLmflsKT3I

[kaisardog]

Upgrades to my boat: ultra pump switch. 2nd emergency higher water float switch in case ultra fails. Audible hi water alarm. Red light in cockpit that comes on if audible alarm sounds. . Manual whale gusher mounted
in cockpit.