refer in the tropics, which type system do you have

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by GILow

For those of us currently getting ready to build a built in box, are you able to share/clarify the issues you faced? Was it just a matter of limited space for insulation or some other factor(s) we should be aware of?

I think you might have missed the part about “running the best that it ever will”. If I didn’t have the minuscule power draw of the stand alone to compare it to, my built in box would get used.

I spent $900 on vacuum panel lids alone!

I have pretty much decided that saving the built in for extra freezer capacity that I don’t really want to tax my electrical system with, is just a bad idea. I will be removing the refrigeration system, insulation and box shell (not hard with oscillating multi too that I didn’t have when I went through all my cutting/building adventure), and expand the dry goods pantry. Then pick up a second stand alone for a dedicated freezer that I can put anywhere I want. The one who stocks the food will thank me.

[Americanrancher]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

I put more insulation in to my very large boxes, with a spillover plate. I got the Technautics Cool Blue (12vDC) and kept steaks and ice cream frozen solid for years at or near the equator for half of each year except for one full year in Mexico at PV. It did not require water cooling and was in the engine room which did not seem to bother it at all. Technautics says they say it will work in the engine room with the engine running in the tropics. From my experience that was true. It also never required any service in the 5 years we had it. Can't recommend it higher. The big hassles were the routine defrosting of the boxes but the unit would bring it back down very fast. It worked for us. Small package too. They have cold plates in different configurations which can be mounted on their sides or vertical. They used very little power really. Our AP and electronics took much more power when moving. Solar was all we needed at anchor. It ran about 3-4x a day and was very quiet. I bought a new one for the current boat. Installation was as easy as any of them and easier than many.

The previous owner of my boat could not supply enough power to keep the original refer system going. So it was switched it out for a Technautics and the power needs were cut in HALF! They were using 160W of solar and a wind generator and that was adequate in Baja. The wind generator has died so I am adding 200 W of solar and I have a 675AH battery bank and I am hoping that it will work. The Technautics guys are great with lots of help in relocating the compressor and rerouting the lines. I am also redoing the box divider to improve the Freezer/Refer control between the 2. My ideal setup would be a separate Refer/Freezer but my boat is too small for that.

[Americanrancher]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

FWIW, ours is a water-cooled, hand-assembled, open-wheel compressor driven by a 3/4hp AC motor. It services a holding plate system in a refer box and a seperate freezer box, each contolled by a Carel digital thermostat linked to a solonoid valve. The Admiral very much prefers to cook on an electric stove (vs propane), so running the genset once to twice a day has been our mode for 16+ years. We've cruised Asia, the Medd, and now the Caribb, so I guess that qualifies as tropical, and have had no issues with our system....although we've never tried to keep ice cream! The whole concept behind our choices was to keep it as simple and serviceable as possible, ie, not hermetically sealed compressor; I wanted something I could take apart and service if/when it needed it. To date, I've never had a compressor issue, and all we've ever done is change the dryer/filter, and add gas. Running 1-2 times a day for about 45 min each keeps both boxes cool and satisfied. The only real complaint is the holding plates take up a lot of our limited box space.

What model of Carel thermo are you using? I have checked out their products and there are hundreds of choices, their tech support can't even figure it out!

[sailcrazy]

Americanrancher....Sorry-We're at our home on a lake in MN, and the boat is on the hard in Puerto Rico...and I don't have that information with me. I bought them from RParts, along with all the other parts I used to replace and build our own system in 2003. Each one is a digital readout and uses 2 probes-one for the box temp (controlling) and one for the holding plate temp(info only). Each head is approx 3" x 1.5" x 2" deep, has a LED-lit digital readout, and 2 control buttons as well as an up and a down control used in programming. As I recall, it is a 5-step process to program each thermostat. We used 2 of them, one for the refer and one for the freezer. PM me in Nov, when we're back on the boat, for more specific data on them.

[OzePete]

This thread confirms a few things. Firstly there is no 'one size fits all'
As a manufacturer of marine refrigeration systems we see a wide range of applications and situations that need to be considered when applying a refrigeration system.
As with all refrigeration the refrigeration load can be calculated so that the most suitable system option is chosen and the power consumption, duty cycle etc are known.

We urge anyone about to install refrigeration have a heat load, duty cycle and power consumption estimate done prior to system selection. This estimate must take into account all the issues specific to each project.

We have provided the OP with an estimate based on 5" of insulation, 35C average ambient and adding other details of his 112 Lt freezer, 112 lt fridge combined project, and the estimated indicated:
Heat Load: 41 watts of heat /hour (X by 3.4 if you prefer BTU's)
Duty cycle: 34% run rate.
Power consumption: 54 Amp/hours total for 24 hours.

These estimates were based on using a single Ozefridge AW480 air and water cooled 12VDC refrigeration condensing unit coupled to twin P53-35-4 eutectic plates each located opposite each other in the freezer cabinet. The fridge cabinet is serviced via a thermo-fan unit slaving off the freezer.

Cheers OzePete

[a64pilot]

If properly designed you don’t need water cooling, The key is properly designed.
If I were to go to water cooling, I would not consider seawater cooled, I’d use the fresh water tank for obvious reasons.

The portable idea has great merit, if your designing a boat or rebuilding one etc, many boats don’t have room for a couple of Engles for example, but if you could use that space normally occupied by an icebox, then portables start to make a whole lot of sense.
Reliable, decently efficient, inexpensive, and very easily replaced when the time comes.

The biggest driver on power consumption is R value of the box, a portable for example just can’t be real efficient if it’s only got 1 inch of insulation, and that’s about what my Engel has.

Never seen a water cooled portable for example, and yet my Engle does negative temps easily.

However any decently sized fridge / freezer is a hungry beast, make sure you have an electrical system that can support the load.
If your Solar like most of us are, be sure to size your system so that you can get by in December, July and August are easy in the Northern hemisphere, mid Winter is a different animal though.

[wingssail]

We've been living and cruising in the tropics for 15 years. Currently the water and air within the range you specify

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

So here's my questions for those who are or have been ACTIVELY cruising in tropical environments. 90f+ air temp, 85f+ water.

1. Air cooled or water cooled? Air Cooled.

2. Do you use a holding plate system or an evaporator plate system? Evaporator Plate

3. Separate refer/freezer box's or spill over? The evaporator plate is a box, inside is the freezer, outside is the refer.

4. Does it meet your needs? ie- is frozen stuff frozen. Can you freeze that huge fish you just caught? It will freeze and keep about two weeks of meat and ice for our drinks. It freezes ice in about 10 hours, less time if we're in cooler water. A huge fish won't fit.

It uses about 60-80 Ah per day. (small box)

It is the simplest possible system. We'd have nothing else.

Please add any other comments you feel relevant.

Thanks,

[weavis]

Here is Seville Spain, August is traditionally the holiday month due to the heat. This year while hot, is not up to normal 50C.. in the 30s mainly.

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[botanybay]

Originally Posted by MLC101

We spent 6 years in the Carib, about 3 of them at the equator. Doesn't get hotter than that. We also tried 3 different systems over the time until we finally got one that worked. Air cooled. Danfoss 12V system. Separate refrig/freezer. Very good insulation (we used vacuum panels). Large boxes. Kept everything frozen very well. We could keep 3 months of frozen goods in the freezer. Easy to work on. Compressors in engine room, not the best, but only place we had room. Insulated copper lines to compressors. Do NOT try spillover. Can not get either refrig or freezer to right temp. Make sure you have full range thermostats. Some are preset for narrow temp range--if you use the wrong one for freezer, won't ever get really cold.

I hear comments about limited life for vacuum panels but nothing definitive, mostly failures from people poking holes in them.

I am about to rebuild my fridge and freezer (new insulation, equipment, etc.

Willing to go with vacuum panels in portions and looking for thoughts.

Two boxes about 18x18x18 inches, one fridge, one freezer. Plan to hold freezer at 0F in tropics. About 6” of room for insulation on freezer, between 4” and 6” on fridge.

Especially considering use of vacuum or aerogel in on corner of fridge with a stringer 3” from outboard side of box.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by botanybay

I hear comments about limited life for vacuum panels but nothing definitive, mostly failures from people poking holes in them.

I am about to rebuild my fridge and freezer (new insulation, equipment, etc.

Willing to go with vacuum panels in portions and looking for thoughts.

Two boxes about 18x18x18 inches, one fridge, one freezer. Plan to hold freezer at 0F in tropics. About 6” of room for insulation on freezer, between 4” and 6” on fridge.

Especially considering use of vacuum or aerogel in on corner of fridge with a stringer 3” from outboard side of box.

if your going to go to all that expense then I would recommend Cryogel Z .
Cryogel® Z – Pacor, Inc.

Approx R7 to R8 per 10mm layer and more resilient than vacuum panels .

[chouliha]

Originally Posted by blubaju

Isotherm holding plate w Danfos bd80 (!!), water-cooled, spillover. 2010 it came with a far to strong waterpump, the to high backpressure killing the pump membranes. Another brand makes a pump that fits exactly, size & power and runs 8 years now. Freezing the big game fish it might still be to small, but you did not mention the size of your yacht & power supply

What pump are you Using?

Thanks

Chuck
Jacaranda

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I have the same issue as Stu
The poll is flawed I have a technautics cool blue holding plate air cooled spillover system.

Personally on a sailboat with plenty of solar I would never have anything but a holding plate type system . While not technically much more efficient it does use a lot less actual battery ah. I run it in the afternoon when batteries are charged . Purely off the solar output.

On the surface, that was my thought too. The holding plates in sunshine with full batteries would draw less but as I consider it I'm not so sure. If I'm running excess power output during the day beyond what the batteries can hold, in effect those AH's are free too.

Your thoughts?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

On the surface, that was my thought too. The holding plates in sunshine with full batteries would draw less but as I consider it I'm not so sure. If I'm running excess power output during the day beyond what the batteries can hold, in effect those AH's are free too.

Your thoughts?

your still using the ah but just off of the solar panels not out of the battery.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by newhaul

your still using the ah but just off of the solar panels not out of the battery.

My thought too so no energy savings.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

My thought too so no energy savings.

just saves wear and tear on the batteries.