Refrigeration -- End of Life?

[s/v Jedi]

I replaced my 2004 system last year so it got to 16 years. The compressor units are still fine but condensers and evaporators are bad. I think that’s where you would find your problems as well.

I also noticed higher energy consumption and as I refuse to do that 2004 project of rebuilding the boxes again, I tore it all out and build new cabinets with slides that hold 100 liter SnoMaster Expedition boxes. Love it, connected power and done

[Clivevon]

"It would be easy to spend more than a new one just to get an old system back still old and with other failures looming."

From personal experience I agree that is very easy to do. 20 years old. Does it owe you anything?

[sailormed]

Dockhead: “If it's a pinhole leak in a condensor, then it's basically unfixable and I would have wasted money and time chasing it.”

I had a pinleak in the tubing (condensor?) behind the fridge. The fridge technician had an instrument that enabled him to pinpoint exactly the place of the leak. Very precise on location identification. Maybe inquire about the methodology used by the repair shop before replacing your existing installation.

[zstine]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

DH,

Four years ago our top loader Danfoss system [installed in 1999] developed a slow leak requiring topping with refrigerant every ~ 8 months.

We have the typical aluminum evaporate plate, so I figured I would try some quick troubleshooting. I charged the system and wet my hands with hand sanitizer- running my still wet hands over the evaporator quickly revealed a pinhole leak.

I spot sanded the paint off the pinhole area and applied a pea size wad of JB Weld epoxy- covering the soft epoxy with clear packing tape to make it a smooth, feathered repair.

It is still holding...

In case you are as lucky...

Cheers! Bill

Great Job Bill!! I love to hear about people fixing things. Society has made everything "disposable" and it is killing the planet and people who live on it. Even if you could replace a bad component, many would just replace the whole thing 'because it doesn't owe me anything". Well, my unit is about 40 years old. So I guess those 20 year units still owe you half a life!!

[BMD21]

Well, I've had 2 refrigs in boats and they lasted as long as I kept the boats: 10 & 15 years. However, I have a house with A/C that's 20 years old and it'd be a bear to lose it on the hottest day of the year, since we live in San Diego county's back woods. And try to find a repairman; they're busy trying to keep their regular customers happy. An A/C is nothing but an air refrig with a fan, so the situations are similar. We had a new A/C installed and one of the selling points was increased efficiency.



You've got 20 years out of those units. . So my advice, worth every cent, is to count yourself lucky over the past 20 years and replace the units. As mentioned above, they'll crap out at the most inopportune time, with no-one around to repair them but you. And no parts. Do you want to take the chance? Up to you.



Boris

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by zstine

Great Job Bill!! I love to hear about people fixing things. Society has made everything "disposable" and it is killing the planet and people who live on it. Even if you could replace a bad component, many would just replace the whole thing 'because it doesn't owe me anything". Well, my unit is about 40 years old. So I guess those 20 year units still owe you half a life!!

I have taken this approach with different things, including old cars. It is amazing how much life you can get out of a device which you are able to fix yourself. As you say, this is good for the planet (except in the case of old cars, with their emissions).


But refrigeration is kind of mission critical on a cruising boat, especially one which is used in remote places like mine is. The argument against fixing it eternally is that every component of any complex machine has its own useful life, and very often when one components fails, others are getting ready to. Replacing the whole thing sets all those different clocks to zero. It does make sense in many cases.

Originally Posted by BMD21

Well, I've had 2 refrigs in boats and they lasted as long as I kept the boats: 10 & 15 years. However, I have a house with A/C that's 20 years old and it'd be a bear to lose it on the hottest day of the year, since we live in San Diego county's back woods. And try to find a repairman; they're busy trying to keep their regular customers happy. An A/C is nothing but an air refrig with a fan, so the situations are similar. We had a new A/C installed and one of the selling points was increased efficiency.

You've got 20 years out of those units. . So my advice, worth every cent, is to count yourself lucky over the past 20 years and replace the units. As mentioned above, they'll crap out at the most inopportune time, with no-one around to repair them but you. And no parts. Do you want to take the chance? Up to you.

Boris

It's a little less catastrophic for me since I have TWO units. If one fails, I can use the other one until I get to a place where I can fix or replace the failed one.


Nevertheless, I think this is right in general and I think I'm going to bite the bullet and replace them. Maybe not this year, but complete replacement might go on next winter's repair list.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

. . . and as I refuse to do that 2004 project of rebuilding the boxes again, I tore it all out and build new cabinets with slides that hold 100 liter SnoMaster Expedition boxes. Love it, connected power and done

I like this solution very much!

I think this is the very same solution chosen by Noelex and Seaworthylass when they built their new Bestaevaer, wasn't it?

This is kind of the outboard motor vs. built-in engine -- any problem, and instead of dealing with it right there (perhaps involving €100 an hour specialists), you just pull it out and take it in, or just replace it with little effort if it starts to make trouble. This is a VERY good solution.



I don't think I could implement it in my boat (front opening fridge,and separate freezer), but for sure if I do a new build, this is the way I will do it

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I like this solution very much!

I think this is the very same solution chosen by Noelex and Seaworthylass when they built their new Bestaevaer, wasn't it?

This is kind of the outboard motor vs. built-in engine -- any problem, and instead of dealing with it right there (perhaps involving €100 an hour specialists), you just pull it out and take it in, or just replace it with little effort if it starts to make trouble. This is a VERY good solution.



I don't think I could implement it in my boat (front opening fridge,and separate freezer), but for sure if I do a new build, this is the way I will do it

Yes, that is is exactly what we did, but on a smaller scale compared to Jedi. We have a 40 litre National Luna portable fridge (SS exterior). It is accessed via a timber lid in the galley bench. The cavity was left a decent size to accomodate various models when the time comes to replace this. A spare fridge/freezer of a similar size will be bought when we start cruising warmer climates.

Three years down the track I can report we have been extremely happy with this simple, easy to replace system.

[s/v Jedi]

Here’s a couple of pictures... front access, just make slides to hold the units. I have a third unit in the pantry

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by zstine

Great Job Bill!! I love to hear about people fixing things. Society has made everything "disposable" and it is killing the planet and people who live on it. Even if you could replace a bad component, many would just replace the whole thing 'because it doesn't owe me anything". Well, my unit is about 40 years old. So I guess those 20 year units still owe you half a life!!

Thanks, Zstine, but I'm afraid I can't take the credit you offer...

The motivation stemmed from having something malfunction while in a very remote area where replacement parts/systems would be months in the future.

I could only hope for a fairly simple fix using only the knowledge and equipment that were in hand...

I was just fortunate that the issue didn't exceed my luck...

Cheers! Bill

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Here’s a couple of pictures... front access, just make slides to hold the units. I have a third unit in the pantry

Lovely!


Would not work on my boat, which has a U-shaped galley. But maybe for the next boat.

[nortonscove]

Wow. The title of this thread really threw me for a loop. I thought it was about being frozen when you die.

[David Mathis]

It seems as though it's worth getting a service guy (or woman) on board to make a professional evaluation as to the problem, the cause, and the cure. After getting that information, you can make an informed intelligent decision. Without that information, you're just guessing. You're posting the question here to get an answer but we haven't seen a professional evaluation so you're only getting more guesses.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

It seems as though it's worth getting a service guy (or woman) on board to make a professional evaluation as to the problem, the cause, and the cure. After getting that information, you can make an informed intelligent decision. Without that information, you're just guessing. You're posting the question here to get an answer but we haven't seen a professional evaluation so you're only getting more guesses.

I wasn't asking what's wrong with my systems. I know what's wrong with them -- they have very tiny leaks.


I was asking about the typical useful life of these systems. And I got good answers to that; thanks to all who posted.


And so the decision is not to invest anything into the 20 year old systems, but to replace them maybe next year. Assuming they continue to work through this season.


Another question is what to replace them WITH. I like the expedition boxes used by Nick and Noelex/SWL but I'm not going to rip apart my galley, which I like the way it is. I'm also quite happy with my fridge and freezer boxes so I'll those alone too. So probably it will be like for like and I'll just put in new compressers and new Isotherm SP condensors, which are very efficient in the cold water I sail in.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

.....And so the decision is not to invest anything into the 20 year old systems, but to replace them maybe next year. Assuming they continue to work through this season.

Do you have any room to fit a small portable unit somewhere? eg Lazarette? If your system fails this summer it at least gives you a back up. It may then allow you to continue to enjoy cruising rather than needing to return to port and suffering long delays while a new system is installed.