Refrigeration - Evaporator vs. Holding Plate

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

For those of us in the United States, be aware that the title "engineer" in Australia is, unlike the case in the United States, not a protected title.

"The title 'engineer' is not protected in Australia, therefore anyone can claim to be an engineer and practice without the necessary competencies, understanding of standards, or in compliance with a code of ethics. This exposes our profession to poor quality engineering, a lack of public trust, and increased general risk – be it financial, safety or environmental."

https://www.engineersaustralia.org.a...tion-engineers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regula...in_engineering

Bill

I am a little confused,,what is the point of your post?
Are you unable to constructively add to the topic so decided to play the man instead of the ball? It appears just so pointless!

[john61ct]

Yes taking sides, forming into "teams" seems more important to some than striving at consensus to arrive at the truth.

Personally I give zero credence to formal qualifications, judge a man and his expertise by the results of his work.

[daletournier]

Ok, so now Petes qualifications are getting attacked.. Lol.

Has anyone here produced more marine refrigeration systems and successfully run a marine refrigeration company as long as Ozpete? I think he has the runs on the board!
How about showing some respect.
BTW we recieve is expertise free of charge here, not a bad deal for us.

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

I am a little confused,,what is the point of your post?
Are you unable to constructively add to the topic so decided to play the man instead of the ball? It appears just so pointless!

I like your phrase "play the man instead of the ball". It is very descriptive. It is also exactly what I was trying NOT to do. That is why I quoted from an Australian web site and gave links to both its source and to a fuller Wikipedia article on the subject.

I simply wanted to point out that Australia unlike the United States does not have a system for the licensing of engineers.

I had no intention of maligning Pete. I heartily apologize.

[john61ct]

Post #296 certainly seems to have that intention.

And my point was that the term engineer is perfectly legal to use by anyone in the US unless fraud is involved, enforced by civil liability, would depend strictly on the context.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes taking sides, forming into "teams" seems more important to some than striving at consensus to arrive at the truth.

Personally I give zero credence to formal qualifications, judge a man and his expertise by the results of his work.

Couldnt agree more. I am an Australian with formal bits of paper stating that I am an "Engineer'. However bits of paper dont get stuff done. I have learnt more from floor sweepers and coffee makers than most qualifed people that already know everything.

I find the people that are so keen to tell you how much they know are often way too smart to be much help.

However Im not sure of the relevence of this line of discussion to the thread?

[a64pilot]

In a lot of the world aircraft mechanics are called Engineers.
Same name, different meaning apparently.

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Ah. That was not clear calling himself retired.

Richard, links to your website, specific offerings?

john 61ct, My website is a free DIY help site that I still use to revise and update information in my books. Technical books become outdated four years after publication so I use my website and public registration now closed Forum to keep refrigeration information currant.
As far as question of specific offerings I am no longer physically able to provide free service calls anywhere in the US. I do not plan on having additional books printed The DIY books are no longer available and I have less than 50 Twelve volt refrigeration left.
I do not feel anyone needs my books anymore and if they cannot find answers to their questions on my website or forum they can Email me direct at; richard@kollmann-marine.com.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Real silly observation, but if your fridge will keep beer ice cold, and your freezer will keep ice cream hard, your in, you really have met the requirements, even if you don’t drink beer or eat ice cream, they are indicators, you don’t need fancy digital thermometers.

Finally! A standard for marine refrigeration efficiency even I can understand!!

Btw, why this obsession with trying to figure the absolute last drop of efficiency out of refrig systems? You see this as well in the battery monitoring threads where it seems mission critical whether you recharge at 60% or 50%. If you're starting from scratch just ask one of these gurus what plates they would install in their own boats and move on to more important issues!

[john61ct]

Because many boats have very limited space for solar, those living on the hook who don't have a genny want to make best use of their limited energy available.

If it true that eutectic systems are radically more efficient even without daily surplus production, I for one would consider that a very important fact to confirm.

Those not interested in maximising efficiency can of course just ignore the topic.

[newhaul]

I'm going eutectic due to lots of solar and wind power

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I'm going eutectic due to lots of solar and wind power

I think that is the most logical reason to do so. For me efficiency is sort of mute, reason is I have crappy insulation, I don’t care how efficient the rest of the thing is, my insulation makes it crap, and I have a feeling that most are the same as I.
My boat has a 14 cu ft ice box, it came with an AB Super Cold machine, how well do you think that worked
Although it was over 20yrs old, it still worked. When it was on, it had a 100% duty cycle

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think that is the most logical reason to do so. For me efficiency is sort of mute, reason is I have crappy insulation, I don’t care how efficient the rest of the thing is, my insulation makes it crap, and I have a feeling that most are the same as I.
My boat has a 14 cu ft ice box, it came with an AB Super Cold machine, how well do you think that worked
Although it was over 20yrs old, it still worked. When it was on, it had a 100% duty cycle

I'm redoing my little box using aerogel insulation. I can only for 2.5 inches of insulation on 3 sides. And still keep a 3.5 c.f. Fridge and 1.5c.f. freezer ( variable sizes. )

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Because many boats have very limited space for solar, those living on the hook who don't have a genny want to make best use of their limited energy available.

If it true that eutectic systems are radically more efficient even without daily surplus production, I for one would consider that a very important fact to confirm.

Those not interested in maximising efficiency can of course just ignore the topic.

I don't think anyone is claiming that one type of system is "radically" more efficient. As A64 and others have amply pointed out, it's more about the box insulation. Most want to make best use of limited available energy, whether it be solar or diesel, but counting amps seems to have almost a religious zeal for some. Aren't there higher priorities when it comes to the daily upkeep and operation of a sailboat?

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Exile

I don't think anyone is claiming that one type of system is "radically" more efficient.

The controversy above resulted from some disputing Pete's published test results showing that his eutectic design used **half** the energy compared to his thin-plate design.

Compared to tests with other designs that have shown a difference under 10%, once the "excess energy" factor is taken out of the picture.

I personally feel that new data is very much worth exploring further.

Some feel it should just be rejected out of hand as impossible.

Others have just expressed energy efficiency just isn't important, not worth bothering about.

As the saying goes, it takes all kinds to make the world go around.