Replacing your old marine toilet

[CindyP]

I wanted to share information that I have gleaned as we attempted to learn how to replace our very old Grocco toilet on our 1988 Catalina 34. I say this because it was a long process of "discussions" with the mate, perusing the forums, asking questions on the forums, learning about Peggie Hall and her book, and an exhaustive search for an elusive video that would show someone actually doing it!

• Everybody asks how marine toilets are anchored to the fiberglass platform! Peggie Hall says "Lag Bolts" (for the uninitiated, these are actually screws but they are also called bolts--go figure!). You must "tap" new holes for the best anchoring. (We still need to learn how to do this)

• Get a copy (digital or paperback) of the completely-updated 2nd Edition of Peggie Hall's famous book "Get Rid of Boat Odors." It talks about your marine sanitation system and it's maintenance.

• There are several marine toilet manufactures in the medium price range: Grocco, Raritan, and Jabsco. We decided on the Raritan PHII Superflush based on Peggie's recommendations and our desire to have a manual toilet, but there are others that may suit your needs better. We ordered ours online for $309 plus free shipping.

• Watch the video by Lazy Daze Sunny Daze for one example of a "Jabsco Toilet Installation & New Supply/Discharge Lines"
  
  https://youtu.be/5AnGeAYVLoI
  
  Peggy Hall and Stu Jackson offer other methods for getting your new discharge hose in place below the floorboards that include gluing the old and new hoses onto a connector, or stitching the hoses together before pulling through the boat. You cannot use hose clamps to join them because they will most likely get hung up somewhere where you can't reach them!

That's our journey so far. We begin our installation next week! If you see any errors above, please let me know.

[pjShap]

I strongly recommend pulling up the floorboards so you can see where you're routing hoses, especially the discharge. When I did this a few years ago the replacement hose had slightly larger outside diameter even though the inside diameter was the same. I had to open up some of the holes where the hose was routed. Good effluent hose is very stiff and I don't think I could have pulled it from one end to the other without full access.

[Scubaseas]

PH2 is an excellent head. When removing the old hoses you may want to drill a 1/4" hole in the top of the hose and squirt in a 3 second shot of expanding foam. You drill the hole about 6" from the end if you can. This will keep the s**t in the hose and not all over you and or the boat. You can drill 3 of 1/4" holes in the end of the old and new hose and use zip ties (ends facing inwards) on the new hose and pull it through. Dish soap works fine as a lubricant. Cut the wires of the hose at the fitting before removing. An oscillating tool works fine for this as long as you don't cut in too far. You'll feel the wires release/pop as you cut through them. If you cut a hose pull some of the wire out to trim it. The end will spring back into the hose and will allow it to not have a sharp "meat hook" on the end of the hose. Use boiling water or a heat gun/hair dryer to heat the new hose so it slides easily over the barb. Try and have no low spots in the hose. Buy GOOD hose unless you like a stinky boat. Use good clamps. Learn how to swear like a sailor. It helps.

[CindyP]

Originally Posted by pjShap

I strongly recommend pulling up the floorboards so you can see where you're routing hoses, especially the discharge. When I did this a few years ago the replacement hose had slightly larger outside diameter even though the inside diameter was the same. I had to open up some of the holes where the hose was routed. Good effluent hose is very stiff and I don't think I could have pulled it from one end to the other without full access.

Good point about differing outer diameters! The place where that will be a problem for us is where the discharge hose passes through both bulkheads of the storage locker next to the head and under the nav table. The holes are very tight around the current hose.

[dlj]

May I ask why you did not consider a composting head? Or at least write about it above.

dj

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by dlj

May I ask why you did not consider a composting head? Or at least write about it above.

dj

Hopefully it is because a composter isn't appropriate for the OP's needs, and not due to bad advice.

[Bowdrie]

Well, you don't really "tap" holes for lag bolts, per se.
The more-or-less "standard" fiberglass shelf that most toilets are secured to is a fairly miserable mounting scheme.
After a couple of toilets with different bolt patterns have been used you end-up with a Swiss cheese platform.
Another point is that most toilets are mounted directly on the platform, this makes cleaning around them a constant battle, and water will invariably migrate into the fastener holes.
If possible, some coated/painted Teak, (or any one of a number of plastics can be used,) for spacers to lift the toilet above the platform, this will make cleaning around the base much easier and that will also give a better surface area around the bolts to preclude leaks thru the fasteners, (use Dolphinite).
Also, if you have access under the platform bolts/washers/nuts are better than lags.

[CindyP]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

Cut the wires of the hose at the fitting before removing. An oscillating tool works fine for this as long as you don't cut in too far. You'll feel the wires release/pop as you cut through them. If you cut a hose pull some of the wire out to trim it. The end will spring back into the hose and will allow it to not have a sharp "meat hook" on the end of the hose.

I am a little unclear about what you mean by this. Why do you need to cut wires BEFORE removing the hose?

Try and have no low spots in the hose. Buy GOOD hose unless you like a stinky boat. Use good clamps. Learn how to swear like a sailor. It helps.

OK, I am now prepared to have an AWFUL experience!! It is impossible in our configuration to NOT have low spots in the hose. The hose feeds downward upon leaving the toilet and and under the nav table area and must go up to connect to the top of the holding tank. It is pretty much U-shaped!

[CindyP]

Originally Posted by dlj

May I ask why you did not consider a composting head? Or at least write about it above.

dj

We didn't really consider a composting toilet on our sailboat; just replacing a similar system. I don't know much about composting toilets. I am not trying to advise anyone, just sharing what we have found out thus far.

[CindyP]

Nope, no access under the platform. That is what my husband really wanted to be able to do: use bolts with washers.

[CindyP]

Originally Posted by dlj

May I ask why you did not consider a composting head? Or at least write about it above.

dj

Found this article discussing composting heads vs regular marine heads if you want to compare:

https://topboatmag.com/composting-head-vs-marine-head/

[Kelkara]

Stating the obvious ... but before doing anything ... take the boat 3 miles offshore, or to a pumpout, and flush and flush and flush, and pump out the tank as many times as you have patience for ... then when the fluids left in the hoses flood out on disconnecting them, it is mostly just sea water ... contaminated sea water, but at least not raw sewage.

[CindyP]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Well, you don't really "tap" holes for lag bolts, per se.

So do you really just drill "pilot" holes rather than having to "tap" holes?

[thinwater]

I find it funny that people always discuss both composting and conventional heads in terms of how messed up they are when everything is wrong. I have had both, and when they are properly maintained both are easy to live with.


For me, it comes down to:

1. Are pump-outs or solid waste disposal easily accessible? Can be a big lever.
2. If the installation is giving trouble, is there a GOOD reason it cannot be properly reinstated? It may be worn out, but anything will be in 20-40 years. Clean the plumbing with freshwater and get to it. Often momentum and a string of half-ass fixes is the problem.
3. What does the crew want? I know it's just poop, but not everyone feels that way.
4. What do you have space for (they both take room, but it is different)? Head room? Weight on small boats?
5. How much will you use it? Will the use be regular or sporadic? These can be answered either way, but both change the design (tanks size, composter choice).

These things can add up either way. Too many people change from one to the other because they cannot learn the system they have. My choice on the next boat will depend on the boat and where it is docked.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by CindyP

So do you really just drill "pilot" holes rather than having to "tap" holes?

Pretty much true.
Most of the "fiberglass platforms" have plywood under them.
The rub comes in if the fiberglass is real thick.
If so, sometimes the fiberglass needs a larger pilot hole than the wood does.
It'll be trial-and-error, start with the smallest pilot hole, (matches the root diameter of the lags,) and see how it goes.
Be careful that the un-threaded portion of the lag, (shank,) doesn't try to force its way into the pilot hole, that can lead to cracking of the gel-coat.
Lags are always a PIA to use.