Rudder stuffing box leaking...can't adjust..seal from the outside?

[MarinAirNoWorky]

Hi - bought a boat cheap, all was great, then the hull cleaners came and blasted it with a power washer (I had a feeling this was a bad idea but I'm not the professional company that does all the boats in this marina here)...

Anyway, now the rudder stuffing boxes are leaking, it's a power boat. I've got 4 bilge pumps, the first one the water hits is a 500 gph and the other 3 are 2000 gph.. the leak isn't a fast one (yet!), I have 2 cameras in the bilge showing the two critical pumps and the lower one has been bone dry and still is.

I wanted to wait till June to haul the boat out and replace all through hulls and anything that needed it, including these rudder shafts and all that jazz.

However, now the boat is technically sinking and I don't like salt water running through the boat on my watch, although it has probably been having this issue for years.

I did try to seal from the inside, as predicted by many it failed.

I'm going to have a diver come and try to seal the shafts from the outside..

Right now I do not need the rudders to move to get it to the spot where it'll be hauled out, but I would LOVE to be able to wait till June.

Here's a picture of what they look like from the inside and why I'm not willing to try and fix them while in the water.

Question here is, what would you use to try and stop these leaks from the outside? I would assume a 2 part epoxy with some kind of tape applied over it so that we can get the sealant in place and then put the tape over it to stop the water flow while it hardens?

right now it's about a drip every 10 seconds.. it causes the 500 gph bilge pump to run for about a min every 24 hours and the area of water is an inch or two deep about the size of a shoebox, so it's not much, but I want this stopped asap because I know water that is moving can become a huge problem fast.

I don't care if they never are able to move again as I'll be replacing EVERYTHING that has to do with this mess (and all thru hulls as well).

[Pandor]

How did you get the bottom pressure washed without getting the boat hauled? Was this done in the water?

Nonetheless, your description of the dripping ingress amounts to what seems to be less than 1/2 gallon per day. I wouldn’t bother hiring a diver to try and seal the shafts from the outside. It wouldn’t be worth the money.

You say you’ll replace, so just plan on doing that at the next reasonable opportunity and make sure your bilge pumps are working and your batteries stay charged. Meanwhile, don’t touch those stuffing boxes. Any movement will likely make them leak worse. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the drips slow as the underwater growth returns over time.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by MarinAirNoWorky

Hi - bought a boat cheap, all was great, then the hull cleaners came and blasted it with a power washer (I had a feeling this was a bad idea but I'm not the professional company that does all the boats in this marina here)...

Anyway, now the rudder stuffing boxes are leaking, it's a power boat. I've got 4 bilge pumps, the first one the water hits is a 500 gph and the other 3 are 2000 gph.. the leak isn't a fast one (yet!), I have 2 cameras in the bilge showing the two critical pumps and the lower one has been bone dry and still is.

I wanted to wait till June to haul the boat out and replace all through hulls and anything that needed it, including these rudder shafts and all that jazz.

However, now the boat is technically sinking and I don't like salt water running through the boat on my watch, although it has probably been having this issue for years.

I did try to seal from the inside, as predicted by many it failed.

I'm going to have a diver come and try to seal the shafts from the outside..

Right now I do not need the rudders to move to get it to the spot where it'll be hauled out, but I would LOVE to be able to wait till June.

Here's a picture of what they look like from the inside and why I'm not willing to try and fix them while in the water.

Question here is, what would you use to try and stop these leaks from the outside? I would assume a 2 part epoxy with some kind of tape applied over it so that we can get the sealant in place and then put the tape over it to stop the water flow while it hardens?

right now it's about a drip every 10 seconds.. it causes the 500 gph bilge pump to run for about a min every 24 hours and the area of water is an inch or two deep about the size of a shoebox, so it's not much, but I want this stopped asap because I know water that is moving can become a huge problem fast.

I don't care if they never are able to move again as I'll be replacing EVERYTHING that has to do with this mess (and all thru hulls as well).

I doubt the pressure wash has anything to do with the rudder shaft leaking. That looks like a standard packing gland. The first thing to try is to simply tighten it. Loosen the locknut (the thinner nut on the gland) Then give the larger Nut about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn tighter, then retighten the lock nut. You can go tighter than 1/2 turn, but if you go too tight the rudder won't turn as easily. If adjusting the gland doesn't stop the leak, then the flax seal inside will need to be replaced. This can sometimes be done in the water, with the bilge pumps working to pump out the water as you are working on replacing the flax. But if you are not familiar with it, best to have someone else do it, or do it with the boat out of the water.

[MarinAirNoWorky]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I doubt the pressure wash has anything to do with the rudder shaft leaking. That looks like a standard packing gland. The first thing to try is to simply tighten it. Loosen the locknut (the thinner nut on the gland) Then give the larger Nut about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn tighter, then retighten the lock nut. You can go tighter than 1/2 turn, but if you go too tight the rudder won't turn as easily. If adjusting the gland doesn't stop the leak, then the flax seal inside will need to be replaced. This can sometimes be done in the water, with the bilge pumps working to pump out the water as you are working on replacing the flax. But if you are not familiar with it, best to have someone else do it, or do it with the boat out of the water.

The bilge was bone dry for 3 weeks with a camera in it (I am a little OCD about dry bilges) and the day that they cleaned it, I was checking in on it.. and water showed up on camera 15 to 20 mins later.

Here's the bilge area that the rudders drain to. It will be at that high water line in about 24 hours and will drain, this is the middle bilge pump..





there is a 2000 gph bilge pump in the stern of the boat which funny enough is right next to the rudders, the mid bilge pump would have to fail and it would take a LONG time to get to the rear one.

Then there's the front bilge, this one is located at least 3 feet lower in the boat than the mid bilge (which is the engine room).



I'm not sure if there is a way for water to get to the front bilge from the mid bilge without having both the mid bilge and the rear bilge failing. I don't plan to be away from the boat long enough for that to happen.

I may replace that 500 gph bilge pump with a 2000 this weekend.. seeing as that's the one that is getting all the work.

The main thing is I water the water flow stopped. Right now it's perfectly manageable but I can't help but thinking about how whatever is keeping the flow low, could just break and all of a sudden I have high water alarms texting me in the middle of the night and we're in panic mode. I never want to be there!

[robert sailor]

If there is lots of room to adjust it simply back off the locknut and then undo the big nut, slide it up a bit and add a single layer of flax. Now you can tighten that down and it should stop leaking.

When you buy flax you wrap it around the driveshaft and pass a layer over top of the starting point and cut thru both layers with a razor knife, that insures you have the proper fit. Clean the shaft inside the stuffing box with some very fine sandpaper or bronze wool so you get a good fit, sometimes the flax is impregnated with Teflon and it works quite well keeping it well lubed and dry. If you can see the existing joint in the layer that exists there when you add the new one do your joint away from the one below it. It’s normal for a stuffing box to leak a drop or two each minute when operating in cruise but usually they don’t leak at all just sitting.
When it’s operating at normal cruise you should be able to put your fingers on the stuffing box and hold them for several seconds, if you can’t do that you’ve got it too tight. This can be done in or out of the water. If you do it out of the water you’ll want to remove all the old packing and replace it with brand new packing it often takes 3 or 4 layers to start with. If you do it in the water leave the old packing in place and just add one new layer to stop it from leaking at a high rate.
If your not mechanical or don’t have a clew then have your mechanic look after it for you. If there are two stuffing boxes your mechanic should be able to get a fresh layer in each one in under an hour.

[wholybee]

Maybe it was just the process of hauling and launching the boat for the pressure wash. It really doesn't matter, as long as it is fixed.

On closer look, I'm sure the flax needs replaced, and the whole gland needs to come off and be cleaned up and reinstalled with new sealant. It looks like there is a gab between the gland and the hull in one picture(leak3, below one of the bolts) , with water leaking there.

There isn't any way to reseal that from the outside. The boat will need to come out of the water.

[Lepke]

You can replace the packing in the water. I've done it many times. Your bilge pumps will more than keep up with any flow while the old packing is removed.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Lepke

You can replace the packing in the water. I've done it many times. Your bilge pumps will more than keep up with any flow while the old packing is removed.

That was my first thought. But look closely at leak3.jpg. It might be leaking a little from the packing, but it seems to be leaking a lot more from where the whole fixture bolts to the hull. That can't be fixed in the water.

[MarinAirNoWorky]

Originally Posted by wholybee

That was my first thought. But look closely at leak3.jpg. It might be leaking a little from the packing, but it seems to be leaking a lot more from where the whole fixture bolts to the hull. That can't be fixed in the water.

Yeah, the whole thing needs to be replaced.. not just the packing...

[SvenG]

Wax from a toilet seal can be forced in around the rudder shaft from the outside. It won't be a perfect seal but certainly reduce the flow. Did that with the propshaft when a couple of 100 miles from the nearest haulout.

[deblen]

Video of re-packing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2KpCs9Nuyo

one type of gland https://www.ebay.ca/itm/295338891259

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxc9F5zCd0E

another type of gland https://www.ebay.ca/itm/285651144626...UaAhoZEALw_wcB

[MarinAirNoWorky]

Originally Posted by SvenG

Wax from a toilet seal can be forced in around the rudder shaft from the outside. It won't be a perfect seal but certainly reduce the flow. Did that with the propshaft when a couple of 100 miles from the nearest haulout.

How careful do you think one would have to be while pushing it up inside, don't want to cause any additional problems.

[MarinAirNoWorky]

Okay - after everyone's thoughts and some other sources I think what the plan is going to be is going to use butyl tape in the space between the top part of the shaft that moves left and right and the actual bottom of the boat and then put some toilet bowl wax around the same area. Hopefully the tape will stop the majority of the flow and the wax will just seal the deal.... the same theory as this pool repair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RneIP-w4RI

I very much hope this works as it will be a nice stop gap way to not perm seal anything but achieve the same results.. now to just brave the cool water. Hoping I might not have to get all the way in..

[gonesail]

i think you could at least try wrapping tape (or old inner tube rubber) around the shaft area. it should stop (or slow) it until you can haul. good luck with it.

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by Pandor

How did you get the bottom pressure washed without getting the boat hauled? Was this done in the water?

Nonetheless, your description of the dripping ingress amounts to what seems to be less than 1/2 gallon per day. I wouldn’t bother hiring a diver to try and seal the shafts from the outside. It wouldn’t be worth the money.

You say you’ll replace, so just plan on doing that at the next reasonable opportunity and make sure your bilge pumps are working and your batteries stay charged. Meanwhile, don’t touch those stuffing boxes. Any movement will likely make them leak worse. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the drips slow as the underwater growth returns over time.

Nothing unusual just one drip is very normal on a prop shaft so won't sink your vessel if that happens on your rudder you could also try adding another layer of packing to the stuffing box usually if you undo the top nut it won't start leaking more and if it does then just put the top nut back on
Personally, I see no emergency here, and no way this can be fixed with a diver visit from the outside