Seacock handle turns freely but valve doesn't close

[Nicholson58]

That valve probably has a 1/4 inch NPT port plug on the side between the two ball seals. Remove the plug and screw in a grease fitting to lubricate.

If the handle and stem turn but the ball does not then the shaft us likely broken. Servicing out of water, remove and disassemble the valve. Dip the parts in muriatic acid to remove all scale. Parts can be found. If too much is worn or broken it will be clear.

[ScottinMA]

Originally Posted by LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating

I'm pretty sure the shaft is turning, but I'll double check by removing the handle and turning it by hand

It must be replaced and cannot be repaired. You could temporarily dive under and hammer a bung into the thru hole but ultimately you will need to pull the boat out to do the repair.

[iduff]

Originally Posted by jzk

I have had that happen twice. Need a new ball valve. You can do it in the water. Just tap a bung into the thru hull from below. Remove and replace the ball valve. Retrieve the bung.

I would have a plan to haul out if you break something.

Should be no problem giving it a shot while still afloat. Use the old belt and suspenders theory, so your bung has backup. The bung is the belt. The suspenders you can add is a collision mat, or a quick and dirty alternative.

Put in a bung as indicated above, then cover the thru hull and bung with a "collision mat" (in quotes, to indicate either a real one, or a quick and dirty one).

If either is either faulty, or of mediocre performance, the other will improve that performance, presumably to a point that a decent bilge pump could keep up.

[Bowdrie]

Those 1/4NPT ports on the side of a ball valve are for draining the water out of the passage in the ball in freezing temps.
Not for Zerk fittings.
The clearance between ball and body is in thousands, the space for grease is almost non-existent.
Even the one-handed grease guns will easily pump 4,000psi, the two-handed ones will push ~10,000psi.
IIRC, Apollo states that their valves are not user serviceable?
They're not worth messing around with, remove the old, replace with new.
Now, you can use a Zerk to lubricate the real tapered-plug seacocks, but you must first back off the plug nut and loosen the plug within the body.

[SaltyMetals]

it appears that the valve should be turning since the handle and nut are turning together on the shaft. This might have been a standard brass stopcock or an old DZR valve but what has happened is that the shaft inside has corroded (de-zincification), the ball valve itself possibly suffering from pitting corrosion in the chrome finish, so the valve gets really stiff. So stiff that the shaft breaks inside, next to the connection to the ball itself. So while you think you are turning the ball-valve inside, nothing is happening due to the broken shaft.
I agree w the others: you need a new fitting for both the through-hull and the stopcock. Either get bronze with a synthetic ball (Maestrini, Italy, does them but i am not sure about USA) or if there is room one of the synthetics like Marelon or TrueDesign which would be cheaper than bronze.
Andrew
"Genial Bee"

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Those 1/4NPT ports on the side of a ball valve are for draining the water out of the passage in the ball in freezing temps.
Not for Zerk fittings.
The clearance between ball and body is in thousands, the space for grease is almost non-existent.
Even the one-handed grease guns will easily pump 4,000psi, the two-handed ones will push ~10,000psi.
IIRC, Apollo states that their valves are not user serviceable?
They're not worth messing around with, remove the old, replace with new.
Now, you can use a Zerk to lubricate the real tapered-plug seacocks, but you must first back off the plug nut and loosen the plug within the body.

This might be true of some valves, but Groko seacocks over 1.25" most certainly CAN be greased with a zerk fitting. It goes not in a 1/4" NPT but rather a 1/8" NPT. Your understanding of the internals of a ball valve wirth TFE sealing rings is flawed.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by jzk

No problem. If you want to pay a few thousand for a haul out to make you feel comfortable, that is your right. But these things can be done in the water with a little preparation.

One time we were launched in Chicago, but one of the ball valves was broken and shooting a stream of water. They agreed to haul us back out for $1000 and launch us in a week. I replaced the ball valve in 5 minutes in the water without even bunging the hole. It was super easy.

Wow! it seems to me that haul outs/lift ins are incredibly expensive in the US. In Malahide Marina, near Dublin, Ireland I can have my 30ft boat lifted out and back in for the equivalent of about $450, with a months stay in the boatyard at no additional cost to my annual marina fee of the equivalent of about $5500 per annum.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

This might be true of some valves, but Groko seacocks over 1.25" most certainly CAN be greased with a zerk fitting. It goes not in a 1/4" NPT but rather a 1/8" NPT. Your understanding of the internals of a ball valve wirth TFE sealing rings is flawed.

I would posit that what I said is true of "most" valves.
Yes, you are correct, the Groco valves are an exception. and an exceptional valve for marine use.
Perhaps the OP can enlighten us as to make/model of his valves.
And you're right, I should have made a distinction.
However, one cannot assume that they can just connect-up a grease gun to a ball valve and obtain good results.

[nofacey]

Bung out side & replace. If you get into trouble….bung the inside & regroup!
Don’t make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[CarinaPDX]

While it is safest to put the bung into the thruhull on the outside before replacing the valve, it is not necessary. I changed out a valve with exactly the same problem, in the river in Gothenburg, Sweden, in January. It was a little too cold to swim down and put a plug in, even if I could break through the ice. Just back off the existing valve to within a couple of turns of the end, wrap teflon tape onto the thruhull, then remove the valve and quickly put the new one on the thruhull and turn. For this to work you should have the new valve open so you don't have to fight the water pressure while trying to get the threads started. Once firmly hand-tightened close the valve and finish up with a wrench. The worst of it was the icy water spraying inside, but it was brief. With luck your water isn't as cold.

BTW if you pull out on the lever it will probably come off with the shaft. Sadly there are valves that are sold by marine suppliers that have shafts made of a metal (brass?) that can corrode. All valves are not created equal.

Greg

[Icarus]

Looks like a broken spindle..replace the valve

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

For this to work you should have the new valve open so you don't have to fight the water pressure while trying to get the threads started.

Let's think this thru a bit more.
You're generally not going to be able to unscrew a valve nor screw on a new one that has a hose connected to it.
Granted, sometimes, with hose clamps released one can get the hose to revolve on its fitting without removing it.
The OP says his valve is stuck in the open position.
What he needs to do is either remove the hose and cap/plug the valve first, or alternately cut the hose above the valve and plug it, (an easy job).
Then the new valve screwed on in the closed position, you don't need water streaming thru an open valve whilst lining-up the threads, the outside water pressure at the thru hull doesn't change whether the valve is open or closed, or even if a hose is-or-is-not connected.
As a side note; All hose runs, whether to a seacock or the boats internal fresh water system/ fuel system/ waste system, should be run in such a way to that there is enough slack to allow that hose to be cut off and re-installed on the fitting more than once.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Let's think this thru a bit more.
You're generally not going to be able to unscrew a valve nor screw on a new one that has a hose connected to it.
Granted, sometimes, with hose clamps released one can get the hose to revolve on its fitting without removing it.
The OP says his valve is stuck in the open position.
What he needs to do is either remove the hose and cap/plug the valve first, or alternately cut the hose above the valve and plug it, (an easy job).
Then the new valve screwed on in the closed position, you don't need water streaming thru an open valve whilst lining-up the threads, the outside water pressure at the thru hull doesn't change whether the valve is open or closed, or even if a hose is-or-is-not connected.
As a side note; All hose runs, whether to a seacock or the boats internal fresh water system/ fuel system/ waste system, should be run in such a way to that there is enough slack to allow that hose to be cut off and re-installed on the fitting more than once.

I was going from memory - this happened a quarter of a century ago. I found that the valve was broken when I tried to close it before flying home, so the valve was stuck open. Of course to work on the valve I had to remove the hose and plug the valve. I would not cut the hose unless the end was damaged (N.B. don't overtighten hose clamps), but if I did then replacing the hose would have been easy enough once the new valve was in.

I disagree about the open (new) valve: once the old valve is removed the stream of water spraying out of the thruhull represents a fair amount of pressure (depending on the depth of the thruhull), which will work against putting on the new valve if closed, and crucially makes it harder to align the threads. With the valve open the water goes through the valve with little force, and in a single direction, while a closed valve sprays water out the sides. Of course I am speaking theoretically, but I can say that using an open valve was quite easy and fast. Have you tried to do it with a closed valve?

Greg

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Of course I am speaking theoretically, but I can say that using an open valve was quite easy and fast. Have you tried to do it with a closed valve? Greg

Yep, during most all of a working life on boats I've probably done it a score of times.
Now, what IS a nice trick, (if you have the vertical room,) is to have a short piece of hose temporarily on the new valve that reaches above the water line that can rotate with the valve.
Now you can easily do what you describe and stick the new valve on in the open position.
Then close the valve and remove your temporary piece of hose.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Yep, during most all of a working life on boats I've probably done it a score of times.
Now, what IS a nice trick, (if you have the vertical room,) is to have a short piece of hose temporarily on the new valve that reaches above the water line that can rotate with the valve.
Now you can easily do what you describe and stick the new valve on in the open position.
Then close the valve and remove your temporary piece of hose.

OK, I like the hose idea. It wouldn't have worked well for me as the thruhull was quite deep so would have required 3-4 feet of hose, at least.

Another thought: I would consider taping a bit of split tubing onto the bottom of the valve such that as the valve nears the thruhull the water spurting out the side would be deflected back against the hull. That would have avoided that cold shower...

Greg