Seacocks / Ball Valves in tight places

[Troy H2O]

Calling all ball valve experts!

I had an old gate valve for my seacock in the cockpit which I replaced while I up on the hard. The problem with the new 1 1/2" ball valve is that once installed it does not clear my fuel tank when I try to move the handle to a closed position (or on position or handle in perpendicular position to valve). The fuel tank is in tight itself and can't be moved. The handle is too long if I was to mount it in that direction to close the valve.

If I was to switch the directions of mounting the handle (mount it 180 degrees) the handle is too long for the space between the haul and the valve.

1. Are there 1 1/2" ball valves with shorter handles out there?
Likely the handles are not interchangeable. I see that an older ball valve that was seized and replaced has a different design for the handle and the fitting it attaches to that will close the valve (sorry, there's probably a technical term for that fitting that the valve attached to).

2. Would anyone recommend bending the handle to clear the fuel tank when turned to close / (on)? or cutting down the handle some how - both cases I would be concerned of compromising the strength of the handle.

Maybe someone out there encountered a similar problem so open to suggestions on above or totally new suggestions.

Photo is attached as a picture is worth a thousand words and probably two thousand of mine! Thanks! - Troy

[donradcliffe]

Cut the handle shorter.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Cut the handle shorter.

Or bend it to fit. Both solutions work as long as you still have sufficient leverage to actuate the valve.

[s/v Jedi]

This is a ball valve mounted straight onto a skin fitting. How many turns is it threaded onto the fitting? I don’t think the threads match because the fitting is a linear thread while the valve is tapered thread.

Also, it looks like a nylon elbow is used instead of a bronze or fiber reinforced plastic.

Other than all that (I recommend replacing with marine grade hardware like TruDesign valve with load bearing collar and matching skin fitting.) I agree with shortening the handle.

[deblen]

Have a look at all seacock info here :https://marinehowto.com/category/plumbing/
Are you sure the new Fairview valve is bronze-not brass.



Cheers/Len

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by deblen

Have a look at all seacock info here :https://marinehowto.com/category/plumbing/
Are you sure the new Fairview valve is bronze-not brass.
Cheers/Len

Fairview claims to offer ball valves in, both, forged Brass and cast Bronze; but when you go to their specifications, the Bronze valve is described as Brass.
➥ https://www.fairviewfittings.com/products/cocks-valves/

[thomm225]

Take the handle off and use a wrench.

[thomm225]

Take the handle off and use a wrench or socket.

Or use a pneumatic wrench.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Fairview claims to offer ball valves in, both, forged Brass and cast Bronze; but when you go to their specifications, the Bronze valve is described as Brass.
➥ https://www.fairviewfittings.com/products/cocks-valves/

Modern bronze alloys are brass because they have zinc, not tin, as the main alloying ingredient. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze#Composition

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Modern bronze alloys are brass because they have zinc, not tin, as the main alloying ingredient. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze#Composition

Generally, I’ve aways understood Brass to contain a larger amount of Zinc, than tin; while Bronze contains larger amounts of Tin, than zinc.
The word “bronze” will typically have a preceding modifier, that describes the type of bronze it is, by indicating the major alloying element(s).
Eg: C65500 Silicon Bronze , and C95400 Aluminum Bz, or C51000 Phosphor Bz.

See also: Steve D’Antonio’s “Know Your Underwater Alloys”:
➥ https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/k...rwater-alloys/

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Generally, I’ve aways understood Brass to contain a larger amount of Zinc, than tin; while Bronze contains larger amounts of Tin, than zinc.
The word “bronze” will typically have a preceding modifier, that describes the type of bronze it is, by indicating the major alloying element(s).
Eg: C65500 Silicon Bronze , and C95400 Aluminum Bz, or C51000 Phosphor Bz.

See also: Steve D’Antonio’s “Know Your Underwater Alloys”:
➥ https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/k...rwater-alloys/

From my link:

Modern commercial bronze (90% copper and 10% zinc) and architectural bronze (57% copper, 3% lead, 40% zinc) are more properly regarded as brass alloys because they contain zinc as the main alloying ingredient.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

From my link:

From the primary sources [References: 15 “Copper Alloys”, & 16 “CDA UNS Standard Designations for Wrought and Cast Copper and Copper Alloys”], for your Wikipedia quote:

Originally Posted by 15

“... Technically, alloys primarily of copper and tin are considered bronzes, while those chiefly of copper and zinc are brasses. In practice, however, the term bronze is commonly used for a variety of copper alloys, including those with little or no tin. This is because they resemble true bronzes in both natural and weathered colors. Table 1.3.1 lists the characteristics of some of the more popular copper alloys and their common names...”

Originally Posted by 16

“... Brasses
These alloys contain zinc as the principal alloying element with or without other designated alloying elements such as iron, aluminum, nickel and silicon. The wrought alloys comprise three main families of brasses: copper-zinc alloys; copper-zinc-lead alloys (leaded brasses); and copper-zinc-tin alloys (tin brasses). The cast alloys comprise four main families of brasses: copper-tin-zinc alloys (red, semi-red and yellow brasses); "manganese bronze" alloys (high strength yellow brasses); leaded "manganese bronze" alloys (leaded high strength yellow brasses); copper-zinc-silicon alloys (silicon brasses and bronzes); and cast copper-bismuth and copper-bismuth-selenium alloys. Ingot for remelting for the manufacture of castings may vary slightly from the ranges shown.

Bronzes
Broadly speaking, bronzes are copper alloys in which the major alloying element is not zinc or nickel. Originally "bronze" described alloys with tin as the only or principal alloying element. Today, the term is generally used not by itself but with a modifying adjective. For wrought alloys, there are four main families of bronzes: copper-tin-phosphorus alloys (phosphor bronzes); copper-tin- lead-phosphorus alloys (leaded phosphor bronzes); copper-aluminum alloys (aluminum bronzes); and copper-silicon alloys (silicon bronzes).

The cast alloys have four main families of bronzes: copper-tin alloys (tin bronzes); copper-tin-lead alloys (leaded and high leaded tin bronzes); copper-tin-nickel alloys (nickel-tin bronzes); and copper- aluminum alloys (aluminum bronzes).

The family of alloys known as "manganese bronzes," in which zinc is the major alloying element, is included in the brasses, above. ...”

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by GordMay

From the primary sources [References: 15 “Copper Alloys”, & 16 “CDA UNS Standard Designations for Wrought and Cast Copper and Copper Alloys”], for your Wikipedia quote:

Exactly and thus we should call them all brass but only some manufacturers from Europe do. A company like Groco calls it “ C83600 Bronze” but officially, C83600 is called Red Brass. I think they keep calling it bronze because of the bad reputation of “brass valves” because of the cheap valves that fail quickly.

Here is the data sheet: https://alloys.copper.org/alloy/C83600

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Troy H2O

Calling all ball valve experts!

I had an old gate valve for my seacock in the cockpit which I replaced while I up on the hard. The problem with the new 1 1/2" ball valve is that once installed it does not clear my fuel tank when I try to move the handle to a closed position (or on position or handle in perpendicular position to valve). The fuel tank is in tight itself and can't be moved. The handle is too long if I was to mount it in that direction to close the valve.

If I was to switch the directions of mounting the handle (mount it 180 degrees) the handle is too long for the space between the haul and the valve.

1. Are there 1 1/2" ball valves with shorter handles out there?
Likely the handles are not interchangeable. I see that an older ball valve that was seized and replaced has a different design for the handle and the fitting it attaches to that will close the valve (sorry, there's probably a technical term for that fitting that the valve attached to).

2. Would anyone recommend bending the handle to clear the fuel tank when turned to close / (on)? or cutting down the handle some how - both cases I would be concerned of compromising the strength of the handle.

Maybe someone out there encountered a similar problem so open to suggestions on above or totally new suggestions.

Photo is attached as a picture is worth a thousand words and probably two thousand of mine! Thanks! - Troy

As others have said.. Basically remove and start again and install an actual seacock. Use the link provided to the "Marine HowTo" site. Replace the plastic tail fitting with bronze one and you'll likely pick up the needed space as the valve body will likely be a bit closer to the hull. If not just pull of the plastic cover and trim the handle shorter (understanding it will take a bitr more effort to turn the valve)


Read this article: https://marinehowto.com/replacing-th...-and-seacocks/

[deblen]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Fairview claims to offer ball valves in, both, forged Brass and cast Bronze; but when you go to their specifications, the Bronze valve is described as Brass.
➥ https://www.fairviewfittings.com/products/cocks-valves/

Yes. I found the same info /Len