Selecting A Water Maker-a Lesson Learned The Hard Way. Maybe This Will Help Someone?

[JeffBurnes]

Originally Posted by JeffBurnes

That's great feed back - thanks Rick, I will definitely check this option out

Hey Rick,

What power source are you using?

[Rickthesailor]

Originally Posted by JeffBurnes

Hey Rick,

What power source are you using?

HI,

We have a 13.5k generator... But a 2k generator can run it...

Rich is on this thread and he can answer better than I... But it is a nice system... It is manual, meaning you make sure the right valves are open, and you need to start the boost pump, check the pressure and adjust, and then start the high pressure pump and adjust it to the operating pressure, check the sample water until it is the right level, then switch the valves to your water tanks... All this takes less than 5 mins... Then monitor until the tanks are full... Then shut it down...

There are fully automated systems, but I can likely fix this one, but not an automated system...

Regards, Rick

[SV THIRD DAY]

Thanks for the nice words Rick.
The key I think in picking a water maker is in getting one that works for your wants and needs. For example, if you want to push a button on your smart phone to start and stop the water maker then our unit just isn't for you. But where our unit shines is in trading out the electronic controls for simplicity and dependability of a manual system. We do have an automatic fresh water flush, but rather than having it be computer controller it's a simple timer with minimal things to "go wrong". Using non-proprietary off the shelf parts doesn't just help reduce the cost, but it also make parts available world wide.

Are we the perfect choice for everyone, no and we don't try to be, which I think is one of the "secrets" of our success. We do what we do well and if someone wants a system outside of our specialty, we happily recommend other manufacturers for them.

To get an idea of what our systems are all about, download a copy of our 30 Gallon per hour water maker manual here:
www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/uploads/sm30.pdf
The only difference between the SM30 and SM40 is the high pressure pump and motor.
The SM40 uses a 1.5Hp motor and 2.3GPM pump and uses 13.3A 115v AC.
The SM30 uses a 1.0Hp motor and 1.6GPM pump and uses 9.3A 115v AC.

For a crew of your size, I would recommend the 40 Gallon per hour unit which sells for $5600 plus $595 for the automatic fresh water flushing option, which I would also recommend.

I'm always here to answer questions if you need me at Rich@cruiseROWater.com
Right now I'm working out of our La Paz, Mexico office enjoying the Tacos!

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Tellie

There are still a few that think the Katadyn 40E is a sufficient watermaker for their boat.

Yes!
I once bought a cat with large genset and 160 liter/h AC watermaker. I hated that beast and it hated me. It was heavy, expensive to maintain, loud, hot, had failing electronics, etc
We also used to little water so we needed to run it only every couple of days

Next boat I started from scratch, installed plenty of solar and a Katadyn ps40e. Much better, light, quiet, reliable, cheap, no electronics.
We Used it every day for a few hours to make all drinking and cooking water required. For tank (i.e. shower) water we mostly used shore water with a bit of daily refill from the watermaker once the drinking water tank was full.

My current boat will most likely get a PS80e to cut runtime in half, and because it's currently on sale so almost the same price as a PS40e. the PS40e quickly clocks quite a few hours, so wear may become an issue.

So obviously the are different ways to get drinking water

[Therapy]

Cool!
Thanks all.
I haven't read a mono vs cat thread in a long time.
Really haven't been around all that much since leaving the water and selling our..
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CAT!

[mcdume]

Originally Posted by Rickthesailor

HI,

We have a 13.5k generator... But a 2k generator can run it...

Rich is on this thread and he can answer better than I... But it is a nice system... It is manual, meaning you make sure the right valves are open, and you need to start the boost pump, check the pressure and adjust, and then start the high pressure pump and adjust it to the operating pressure, check the sample water until it is the right level, then switch the valves to your water tanks... All this takes less than 5 mins... Then monitor until the tanks are full... Then shut it down...

There are fully automated systems, but I can likely fix this one, but not an automated system...

Regards, Rick

Hi Rick - I'm picking up a new L450S 4 cabin in April and was wondering how/where you installed your Cruise RO system. I'd really appreciate any help you can offer. Thanks. Michael

[Rickthesailor]

Hi Michael,

We have the units in the port hull. The tubes and High Pressure pump are under the forward berth. Shelving needs to be built for this. The tubes run parallel to the hull and are outboard of the AC. The HP is just aft of the AC and centered under the berth.

The filters and three way valve are at the foot of the berth under floor by the Sonar.

The boost pump is in the port bilge. Although I would put it where the filters are if you can fit it in. The access to the bilge is ridiculously small and any work on the boost pump is difficult in this area. We've only had to deal with this once, when the through hull clogged up, and we thought it was the boost pump that had failed.

The panel was put on the inside wall at the foot of the berth, by the light switches.

We have forked the product water line so that there is a line for the tanks in each hull, and separate on off valves for each line. They are under the sink in the forward head, along with the sample water line. The port tanks will always fill before the starboard tanks as it requires more pressure to go the extra distance to the starboard tanks.

We got the auto flush feature, against Rich's suggestion, and have never used it.

Note that you can flush the WM two ways 1) the way the manual says using the Boost and HP pumps, or 2) just using your boats water pump, and leaving the Boost and HP pump off... this is much simpler than having to start the gen when you just need to do the weekly flush... It takes about twice as much time, but is very simple.

Also note that the water line runs are distance sensitive. Try to keep them as short as possible.

In three years we have never pickled the system. If we leave the boat for more than a week we have someone come over and flush the tank. Since all they need to do is turn on the three way valve for about 6-10 mins, it is pretty simple, and can even be done on the hard.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by rabbi

... the PS40e quickly clocks quite a few hours, so wear may become an issue....

Our PS35, with plastic pump housing, is 30 years old and is still working. We have replaced the membrane twice, rebuilt the valves once, and repaired a broken membrane housing.

The water is excellent.

It is completely manual.

[mcdume]

Rick, This is incredibly valuable information. Thank you so much for your generous sharing. Your installation is quite similar to Urs Tanner's L450F Tamiro II, not a Cruise RO unit though. I sailed with him for a couple days this past summer in Greece. I really like the Cruise RO program, and the two guys. I think I’ll go with their SM40 220V AC 50 Hz. All the best, Michael McDonnell

[svspirited]

This has been a supremely useful thread. One question I have is for something like a 20gph AC unit would a 2500w inverter, 600ah of AGM batteries, and 600w of solar be enough to handle the load of the high pressure pump should the generator fail and were to be irreparable for a period of time? In that state we would be looking to be in survival mode so we would run just enough to ensure we have water to drink so run times would be relatively short leaving enough time to run the unit for whatever the recommended minimum may be.

[mcdume]

Originally Posted by Rickthesailor

Hi Michael,

We have the units in the port hull. The tubes and High Pressure pump are under the forward berth. Shelving needs to be built for this. The tubes run parallel to the hull and are outboard of the AC. The HP is just aft of the AC and centered under the berth.

The filters and three way valve are at the foot of the berth under floor by the Sonar.

The boost pump is in the port bilge. Although I would put it where the filters are if you can fit it in. The access to the bilge is ridiculously small and any work on the boost pump is difficult in this area. We've only had to deal with this once, when the through hull clogged up, and we thought it was the boost pump that had failed.

The panel was put on the inside wall at the foot of the berth, by the light switches.

We have forked the product water line so that there is a line for the tanks in each hull, and separate on off valves for each line. They are under the sink in the forward head, along with the sample water line. The port tanks will always fill before the starboard tanks as it requires more pressure to go the extra distance to the starboard tanks.

We got the auto flush feature, against Rich's suggestion, and have never used it.

Note that you can flush the WM two ways 1) the way the manual says using the Boost and HP pumps, or 2) just using your boats water pump, and leaving the Boost and HP pump off... this is much simpler than having to start the gen when you just need to do the weekly flush... It takes about twice as much time, but is very simple.

Also note that the water line runs are distance sensitive. Try to keep them as short as possible.

In three years we have never pickled the system. If we leave the boat for more than a week we have someone come over and flush the tank. Since all they need to do is turn on the three way valve for about 6-10 mins, it is pretty simple, and can even be done on the hard.

Hi Rick - I've never thanked you for your valuable information about your Cruise RO install. Thank you very much. I met Rich at Annapolis and we visited a L450S there to look at installation options and he suggested something close to what you have done. But he suggested putting filter tubes only under the port forward bunk and all other components under the floorboards. He said they should fit and it would make it quieter in the port forward bunk. The control panels (including auto flush) would be in the aft-facing shelving under the nav station as you walk up the steps to the salon. That way you can operate the WM from the nav station area. What do you think about these ideas?

I've taken delivery of a Cruise RO SM40 40 GPH WM here in SoCal and now I have to figure out how to ship it to France! I pick up the boat in Les Sables in April. Thanks in advance for any more info.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by svspirited

This has been a supremely useful thread. One question I have is for something like a 20gph AC unit would a 2500w inverter, 600ah of AGM batteries, and 600w of solar be enough to handle the load of the high pressure pump should the generator fail and were to be irreparable for a period of time? In that state we would be looking to be in survival mode so we would run just enough to ensure we have water to drink so run times would be relatively short leaving enough time to run the unit for whatever the recommended minimum may be.

The 1.0Hp motor of BOTH the 20 and 30 gallon per hour unit uses 1100W.
So a 2000W pure sine wave inverter CAN indeed start up and power the motor. BUT can you do that just off of a Lead Acid Battery Bank? No...the roughly 100A DC being drawn from the battery bank would just be too high. So what Cruisers do in a back up to their generator OR when they are motoring is to let their alternator assist with the load. So that way while motoring, you run the water maker from the 2000W inverter and then at anchor you use the generator (Honda or diesel). Now if you have LiFePO4 batteries...well then Sure...I can run the 30GPH water maker from my 400AH Lithium battery bank without a problem. But if you have Lead Acid, then you will want to have your alternator running to help carry the load.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by svspirited

This has been a supremely useful thread. One question I have is for something like a 20gph AC unit would a 2500w inverter, 600ah of AGM batteries, and 600w of solar be enough to handle the load of the high pressure pump should the generator fail and were to be irreparable for a period of time? In that state we would be looking to be in survival mode so we would run just enough to ensure we have water to drink so run times would be relatively short leaving enough time to run the unit for whatever the recommended minimum may be.

Having just gone through this with a 30gph sea recovery unit, I would say "hell no!"

Seriously, if your generator anxiety is anything like mine (for reasons) and you have the solar power, go with a low draw 12v unit.

I just paid to have our A/C unit removed and installed a Spectra 340c and couldn't be happier. I'm literally sitting in the cockpit barely listening to it run now completely on solar power while the batteries are also charging.

Tellie tried talking me out of the fully auto version but I took what was available in the islands and so far (one week) love the decision and as each day goes by, the money pain gets weaker.