Shower sump issues

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Blackacre

I am having a difficult time troubleshooting by shower sump/box pump. Everything starts working as normal, shower fills with water, float switch turns on the pump but then the water only sometimes evacuates other times is does not even though the pump is running. Placing my finger over the drain you can fell the suction building, is if there is a clog in the line somewhere between the shower pump in the front of the boat and the through haul in the back of the boat.

Sounds like a clog in the line right, only I took a garden hose and sprayed high-pressure water throughout the system to clear out any debris that may have gotten in there over the years. A clog also does not explain why it sometimes works and other times it does not.

Let’s rule some things out, I have two showers, one icebox pump and one secondary sump pump that all feed into a manifold and out the same through hole in the back of the boat. All of the pumps have been replaced with a gulper 330’s, all check valves are new, secondary bilge pump is new and I sprayed water through all the hoses leaving Aft.

What am I missing here? The aft shower or secondary bilge doesn’t appear to have any issues. The ice box drains slower then I would expect. The issues in the the fore cabin shower.

I’m thinking of running a snake from the through hall back up into the manifold to see if there’s something creating a partial blockage or restricting water flow. The only other thing I can think of is a possible crack in one of the lines were a loose hose clamp but I don’t see any water leaking if in the boat.

2007 Beneteau 46

Looking at your diagram it appears that a sink and the shower both are emptied by the forward gulper pump, so one question I have is: Could air be getting into the pump flow from the sink?

My bilge pump is a Gulper. Periodically we have pumping problems. The diagnostic steps I'd try are:

1. Disconnect the inlet hose at the shower drain and put into a glass of water. (Bypass the T to the sink) Does it pump?
2. If not, put a hose from the pump inlet itself to glass of water, does it pump?
3. If not, disconnect the outlet hose from the pump and repeat step 2. If it does not pump then the problem is in the pump.
4. if 1 or 2 or 3 work but the system still does not empty the shower sump, disconnect the pump line at the entrance to the manifold. Does water (from the glass) flow to there?

There are many variations in this diagnosis path but you get the idea. Isolate the problem.

[Blackacre]

Originally Posted by GordMay

What Flagship Marine said.


The electric motor runs but no water is pumped ?
Check:
a) that inlet hose connection is airtight, free fromblockages, and does not collapse.
b) that the shower/sink drain is not clogged.
c) that the valves in the pump are not blocked & are seating properly in the pump head.
d) that the diaphragm has not split - replace if damaged.
More ☞ https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/si...0217_sr_db.pdf

And ☞https://youtu.be/v8Xwi_HB-ek

Thanks. Check all of those again. New pump/diaphragm/check-valve.

I’m thinking if there is a clog it’s somewhere near the manifold where both showers, icebox and secondary bulge pump merge or thereafter.

[Blackacre]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Agreed. Any builder that doesn't put a filter next to every pump can't be trusted to do number crunching. And pumping the length of the boat seems a big ask for a normal shower pump -- at least it makes life hard for it and there's no redundancy. Is there another thru-hull you could use nearer the forward shower, or does everything run together and the length of the boat?

The Thru haul being used is above the waterline. I don’t have anything like that in the fore of the boat.

[Blackacre]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Looking at your diagram it appears that a sink and the shower both are emptied by the forward gulper pump, so one question I have is: Could air be getting into the pump flow from the sink?

My bilge pump is a Gulper. Periodically we have pumping problems. The diagnostic steps I'd try are:

1. Disconnect the inlet hose at the shower drain and put into a glass of water. (Bypass the T to the sink) Does it pump?
2. If not, put a hose from the pump inlet itself to glass of water, does it pump?
3. If not, disconnect the outlet hose from the pump and repeat step 2. If it does not pump then the problem is in the pump.
4. if 1 or 2 or 3 work but the system still does not empty the shower sump, disconnect the pump line at the entrance to the manifold. Does water (from the glass) flow to there?

There are many variations in this diagnosis path but you get the idea. Isolate the problem.

Here is my shower pan. The sink empty’s into the pan. Than the pump has its own hose.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Agreed. Any builder that doesn't put a filter next to every pump can't be trusted to do number crunching. And pumping the length of the boat seems a big ask for a normal shower pump -- at least it makes life hard for it and there's no redundancy. Is there another thru-hull you could use nearer the forward shower, or does everything run together and the length of the boat?

My whale gulper has no issue pulling water 30' and pushing it up 6' and back 15 ' to a through-hull. In fact I often run the pick up out my companionway and over the side to my dingy to pump that dry. Also no problem.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Blackacre

Here is my shower pan. The sink empty’s into the pan. Than the pump has its own hose.

So that makes step 1 slightly easier, you have no problem bypassing the T to the sink.

[Blackacre]

Originally Posted by wingssail

So that makes step 1 slightly easier, you have no problem bypassing the T to the sink.

Just Confirmed the Pump is sending water downstream. So the issue must be down the line somewhere. Strangely, the issue is intermediate which makes me think it could be a partial blockage somewhere or something else entirely

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Blackacre

Just Confirmed the Pump is sending water downstream. So the issue must be down the line somewhere. Strangely, the issue is intermediate which makes me think it could be a partial blockage somewhere or something else entirely

Does the flow of water reach the manifold?

Could the manifold possibly block the flow somehow, under some situations??

Yes, the intermittency of the problem makes it difficult.

[Blackacre]

I’m thinking it’s the manifold. Unfortunately it’s the hardest place to reach on my boat. Underneath the water heater.

I’m going to try and run a wire or snake in from the thru haul back up to the manifold next as that’s easier.

[DeepFrz]

Could you have an intermittent wiring problem to the pump?

[Blackacre]

We are in the track of Hurricane Dorian so all of the sudden this problem doesn’t seam like a big deal.

[Blackacre]

No power issues. I’m back to troubleshooting this problem. Pump turns on and off correctly. The problem is intermittent. Sometime the shower will empty just fine other times the pump runs but doesn’t create enough suction to pump the water. I’m really stumped here.

[Blackacre]

Does anyone know how Beneteau makes these manifolds? Are they just splitting the connection or is there a check valves function in there? Access to change the manifold is difficult so I want to understand the problem better before trying to replace it.

[Blackacre]

Well I’m stumped. The pump works intermediately. I tested everything but for some reason the pump losses suction about 1 out of 5 times it cycles. I noticed air bubbles coming out of the drain which makes me think there could be a crack in the line somewhere between the pump and the shower pan. Im going to replace all the hoses next week as I can’t find the problem.

[Blackacre]

Finely addressed the problem. After lots of different attempts to limit vapor lock, check valves, new lines, etc... I installed a more powerful pump. Works great. Although I’m sure installing new lines and fixing any air leaks into the system all contributed.