Two questions about heating while on the water

[Rohan]

1. When it comes to a dedicated heater, I have considered options and would prefer to install a solid fuel heater. But when I google it, the Dickinson Marine Newport heater (here, or featured in this article here) is the only result I get. So is that really the only choice? It looks like a fine product, but it's dimensions are a little large. It's not very tall or wide, but it sticks out 10" from the wall, which is too much on my boat. I'm not sure there's any good place to put it. I would love a smaller one, if anyone knows about one, please share.

2. Heating with the oven. I know that's not recommended, but how bad is that really? I have a fairly standard Force 10 propane gimbaled oven. Surprisingly just by cooking it heats up the cabin pretty well. Any specific danger of using it as a heater? I'm not worried about carbon monoxide because I have 3 CO detectors which have all been recently replaced.

[Pete7]

There is a mini cub stove. Sailing Uma fitted one a couple of years ago so worth a search on You Tube.

Burning propane in the stove leads to additional condensation on top of the amount caused by cooking and people.

Why not a diesel heater blown air?

https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/prod...ini-wood-stove

Pete

[Pete7]

This worth a read:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ard-58789.html

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Rohan,

If you're planning for winter living aboard, serious insulation needs to be done, or you'll be living in a rain forest of condensation from your own breath. The moisture condenses on the inside of the hull, everywhere, and will run down onto cushions, causing mildew.

That said, heating the air makes it so it will hold more moisture, but even your propane oven, wide open will not be able the heat the boat enough. You need a vented heating system that will circulate warm air throughout the boat. Forced air heating, in a way. It is a big project.

Some friends of ours with a 40 footer installed a Webasto one, and say it warms the cabin nicely in 30 min., but they also insulated everywhere for a trip to Alaska and grew up in the NW of England. By contrast, it takes our Fab-All -- a Dickinson knockoff-- an hour to raise the cabin temperature 2 deg. C. This morning it was from 11 deg. C. (51.8 F) to 13 deg. C (55.4 F). There is a circulating fan placed above it to help move the air towards our feet., and will take hours to reach our comfort zone of about 16 or 17 deg. C.

Additionally, your propane oven will also put out moisture from burning the propane, and said moisture will also condense out throughout your boat, just like your breath. Good boat heating systems vent the moisture from the fuel they burn (ours is diesel) to the atmosphere. The moisture also will drip down off the hatch onto the bunk or onto your sleeping face.. There are ways to help with the problem, (clear pvc covers for the inside of ports and hatches, so there is an air space), but most cold dwellers say the best way is to allow the cold in and out of the boat at all times. This sorta means wearing thermal underwear all the time....or learning to tolerate the feeling of living in a refrigerator.

Another comment about propane heating. It takes a LOT of propane. We have just left a house-sit, where the cooking, water heating, and whole house heating is propane powered. Costs for winter heating here, where it rarely freezes, one bill was $450 for 4 weeks. So, for one week, say $110. By comparison, one week for diesel (20 liters, roughly 5 US gal.) was running us around $40.

Dickinson have a wide range of heaters, some other friends of ours installed a huge one on their aluminum cutter. It keeps their boat very warm indeed here in Tasmania. I think they have plans to go to Labrador, and the boat IS insulated, as well.

Good luck with it.

Ann

[GILow]

Have a look at this thread...


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums....php?p=1871164

I got through winter in Tasmania with it. (Though visitors tended to wear thermals when coming over for dinner)

I'm moving the whole system to my new boat because a) I think it's brilliant and b) I suspect whoever buys my old boat would be scared off by it.

I cannot describe how nice it is to have hot water and cabin heat at the flick of a switch while at anchor. I never run the engine to generate power or heat water.

[Rapanui]

As others have said, using the stove is not a good idea for heating because of CO and condensation effects.
Blown air heating can have the minimum impact on living space if you can find a space for the heater and a route for the hot air duct. It also takes fresh cold air from outside which minimises the amount of condensation produced.

You can get both diesel and gas blown air heating. Diesel units cost more, but are often cheaper to run. For us, we only use heating infrequently at the start and end of the season so we chose gas. https://propexheatsource.co.uk/ It has been very reliable and effective.

[Benz]

There are better stoves than the Dickinson, but they all require a lot of space and a lot of shielding. I have a Navigator Stove Works "Sardine," but that's bigger than the Dickinson. There is a "Tiny Tot," the smallest boat woodstove I've seen, but it gets annoying to mill wood small enough to burn in it. There is the "Hobbit Stove," made in England, that has a glass door so you can see the flames.
Ann is right about condensation though--you need insulation, even though the stove is the best dryer for air.

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by Rohan

1. When it comes to a dedicated heater, I have considered options and would prefer to install a solid fuel heater. But when I google it, the Dickinson Marine Newport heater (here, or featured in this article here) is the only result I get. So is that really the only choice? It looks like a fine product, but it's dimensions are a little large. It's not very tall or wide, but it sticks out 10" from the wall, which is too much on my boat. I'm not sure there's any good place to put it. I would love a smaller one, if anyone knows about one, please share.

2. Heating with the oven. I know that's not recommended, but how bad is that really? I have a fairly standard Force 10 propane gimbaled oven. Surprisingly just by cooking it heats up the cabin pretty well. Any specific danger of using it as a heater? I'm not worried about carbon monoxide because I have 3 CO detectors which have all been recently replaced.

Hey Rohan
Yes small forced air diesel heater is great: webasto, espar cheaper spin offs like planar, even cheaper, and yes good Chinese ones

[Lepke]

http://www.fatscostoves.com/


Small solid fuel stoves.

[Jim Cate]

I like to stare into a fire as much as anyone, but don't see a solid fuel heater on a small boat as a good idea. Several issues: intermittent fuel demands requiring adding wood or coal every now and then... usually when it is inconvenient; ash removal mess and eventual disposal; inconsistent heat output and need to store bulky fuel somewhere dry.

The use of diesel fuel, likely already in the boat's tanks and in great quantity may not have the ambience of a wood fire, but after wintering on board a couple of times now I really appreciate the convenience of our simple pot burner diesel heater.

Jim

[Windpilot]

I got a Chinese diesel heater, it's 3 years old now, upgraded the exhaust and thru hull skin fitting. It's hidden in the rear lazerette, sips fuel from my main tank, 12v fan/pump. Low amp draw giving high heat pretty much instantly after turned on. I use it anchored, at the dock and even while sailing. It will seriously heat your boat with dry heat, no smell or mess and safe. High end units are expensive, hydronic heaters are great. But for about $300 which includes needed boat upgrades you can really heat your boat. They are great heaters, disregard the haters, they don't have one.
Fireplace is nice, not too sure if a wood burning one is something for a boat/heat.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Rohan

1. When it comes to a dedicated heater, I have considered options and would prefer to install a solid fuel heater. But when I google it, the Dickinson Marine Newport heater (here, or featured in this article here) is the only result I get. So is that really the only choice? It looks like a fine product, but it's dimensions are a little large. It's not very tall or wide, but it sticks out 10" from the wall, which is too much on my boat. I'm not sure there's any good place to put it. I would love a smaller one, if anyone knows about one, please share.

2. Heating with the oven. I know that's not recommended, but how bad is that really? I have a fairly standard Force 10 propane gimbaled oven. Surprisingly just by cooking it heats up the cabin pretty well. Any specific danger of using it as a heater? I'm not worried about carbon monoxide because I have 3 CO detectors which have all been recently replaced.

Do you have CO2 and oxygen monitors? The oven can use all of the air in the cabin... unless you leave a window open, which sort of defeats the purpose when it is cold. Even at low levels, CO2 causes headaches. You need to move the exhaust out of the cabin. Common sense.

All of the moisture from the propane will be in the cabin. The windows will sweat. It's a lot.

ABYC prohibits non-sealed heating devices.

You could create a vented heater.


https://goodoldboat.com/diy-sailboat-cabin-heater/

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Rapanui

As others have said, using the stove is not a good idea for heating because of CO and condensation effects.
Blown air heating can have the minimum impact on living space if you can find a space for the heater and a route for the hot air duct. It also takes fresh cold air from outside which minimises the amount of condensation produced.

You can get both diesel and gas blown air heating. Diesel units cost more, but are often cheaper to run. For us, we only use heating infrequently at the start and end of the season so we chose gas. https://propexheatsource.co.uk/ It has been very reliable and effective.

In 30 years and 5 diesel heater installs I always take the input air from the cabin space as the system is not efficient enough to heat low temp outside air.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In 30 years and 5 diesel heater installs I always take the input air from the cabin space as the system is not efficient enough to heat low temp outside air.

Note that open room gas heating is illegal on European specified boats. This includes gas powered ducted system. The burner must be fully sealed and supplied by outside air and exhaust to outside air. Typical RV and Caravan systems are typically illegal on such boats. ( as are gas powered fridges )

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Do you have CO2 and oxygen monitors? The oven can use all of the air in the cabin... unless you leave a window open, which sort of defeats the purpose when it is cold. Even at low levels, CO2 causes headaches. You need to move the exhaust out of the cabin. Common sense.

All of the moisture from the propane will be in the cabin. The windows will sweat. It's a lot.

ABYC prohibits non-sealed heating devices.

You could create a vented heater.


https://goodoldboat.com/diy-sailboat-cabin-heater/

This would be illegal on European boats as Gas devices must be certified and meet ISO standards. Further note modifications to gas devices such as shown are also illegal and must be certified and carried out by certified professionals.

Do not do this stuff at home kids.